Youth of the Big XII

[cybsball20]

I was curious, because I thought we had a young team what the rest of the league looked like. I took the top seven in the rotation through the weekend games (by minutes played) and averaged out their years. It looks like we have one of the older squads in the league with only Missouri and Nebraska ahead of us. Kansas is BY FAR the youngest team. That tells me that we need this to be our year, no matter how young we think our team is. We will lose three starters next year and bring in one new face and we have seen what the other teams are bringing in...

Missouri (3.00)
Taylor (jr)
Carroll (sr)
Lyons (sr)
Tiller (jr)
Lawrence (sr)
Denmon (fr)
Safford (so)

Nebraska (3.00)
Harley (sr)
Henry (jr)
Dagunduro (sr)
Anderson (jr)
McCray (fr)
Miller (so)
Velender (sr)

Iowa State (2.86)
Garrett (so)
Thompson (sr)
Peterson (sr)
Eikmeier (fr)
Vanderbeken (jr)
Brackins (so)
Haluska (sr)

Texas (2.71)
Abrams (sr)
Mason (jr)
James (jr)
Atchley (sr)
Ward (fr)
Johnson (so)
Chapman (so)

Texas A&M (2.71)
Sloan (jr)
Carter (sr)
Davis (jr)
Roland (jr)
Elonu (jr)
Holmes (so)
Harris (fr)

Oklahoma State (2.57)
Anderson (so)
Eaton (sr)
Thomas (so)
Muonelo (jr)
Harris (sr)
Page (fr)
Moses (so)

Baylor (2.43)
Dugat (sr)
Jerrells (sr)
Rogers (sr)
Dunn (so)
Acy (fr)
Jones (fr)
Ellis (fr)

Oklahoma (2.43)
Griffin (so)
Griffin (so)
Warren (fr)
Johnson (sr)
Crocker (jr)
Davis (so)
Wright (jr)

Texas Tech (2.43)
Roberson (so)
Voskuil (sr)
Roberts (so)
Okorie (jr)
Grahm (fr)
Cook (jr)
Singletary (so)

Kansas State (2.29)
Pullen (so)
Kent (sr)
Clemente (jr)
Samuels (fr)
Anderson (so)
Sutton (so)
Brown (so)

Colorado (2.00)
Higgins (so)
Tomlinson (fr)
Dufault (fr)
Thorne (jr)
Crawford (so)
Jackson-Wilson (sr)
Eckoff (fr)

Kansas (1.86)
Collins (jr)
Reed (so)
Morningstar (jr)
Morris (fr)
Aldrich (so)
Taylor (fr)
Releford (fr)

 

[LindenCy]

That is an interesting stat. I don't know if seniority means as much as it used to with one and two year players, though. I think it does mean we have an advantage in at least one area.

 

[cybsball20]

That is an interesting stat. I don't know if seniority means as much as it used to with one and two year players, though. I think it does mean we have an advantage in at least one area.

When you consider Oklahoma could lose a freshman and sophmore to the draft then I guess your right. I guess my point was thta this is the year we need to make a serious move or we may lose ground...

 

[BigDISU1]

starters:
Diante so
Lucca so
Wes fr
JVB jr
Brackins so

reserves:
Haluska sr
Peterson sr

Throw in this "end of year" starting line-up (I think you predicted this in a different thread) and add 2 seniors (for 7 players total), we drop down a bit... 2.57

 

[cybsball20]

starters:
Diante so
Lucca so
Wes fr
JVB jr
Brackins so

reserves:
Haluska sr
Peterson sr

Throw in this "end of year" starting line-up (I think you predicted this in a different thread) and add 2 seniors (for 7 players total), we drop down a bit... 2.57

True, but we are still relying on seniors for alot of minutes, even if they are walk ons...

 

[mj4cy]

We lose 3 starters in Haluska, Thompson and Peterson. While that will hurt our experience, I don't think the backups behind them or that far behind like on some teams. So I think it's kind of mis-leading.

 

[mplscyclone]

Some of it is misleading. Oklahoma has the best player in the league in Griffin and he's only a sophomore. While some experience does matter, some of these teams have some better young talent than we currently have...

It is an interesting stat to look at though. At the very least, I think it shows the consistency that's expected from each team.

 

[JDDCy]

I have a feeling as the season goes on guys like Hamilton and Buckley will be a much larger part of the rotation. All 3 Seniors are role players. They are great kids and I hope they continue to contribute but the younger kids will be logging more minutes as the season rolls along.

 

[cycloneworld]

On paper, we are going to be younger next year than we are this year.

 

[Cydkar]

Lucca

 

[Cydkar]

Lucca will be starting soon so we lose only 2 starters. We just got better next year! :smile:

 

[bos]

True, but we are still relying on seniors for alot of minutes, even if they are walk ons...

Im hoping these guys are the training wheels for our new guys and once they come off, the others can take over on their own.

 

[JRE1975]

Interesting stats, it shows a couple of things:

1.) cybsball20, you have a lot of time on your hands! :notworthy:
2.) It could be one reason we were able to come back on Friday night

I only got to watch the Saturday and Sunday games, but I was overall impressed with JVB and Hamilton. I will not be a bit surprised if Thompson is playing less than 10 minutes a game by the time we get to conference play. I do think that Petey and SH will be playing quite a bit all year in the 2 spot, and Lucca will clearly take over the the 3 spot.

Overall, I was pleasantly surprised and look forward to how this team gets better over the year.

Thanks for the work looking all this info up for us!

 

[cybsball20]

1.) cybsball20, you have a lot of time on your hands! :notworthy:

I don't require much sleep...

 

[kucyclone]

I was curious, because I thought we had a young team what the rest of the league looked like. I took the top seven in the rotation through the weekend games (by minutes played) and averaged out their years. It looks like we have one of the older squads in the league with only Missouri and Nebraska ahead of us. Kansas is BY FAR the youngest team. That tells me that we need this to be our year, no matter how young we think our team is. We will lose three starters next year and bring in one new face and we have seen what the other teams are bringing in...

Missouri (3.00)
Taylor (jr)
Carroll (sr)
Lyons (sr)
Tiller (jr)
Lawrence (sr)
Denmon (fr)
Safford (so)

Nebraska (3.00)
Harley (sr)
Henry (jr)
Dagunduro (sr)
Anderson (jr)
McCray (fr)
Miller (so)
Velender (sr)

Iowa State (2.86)
Garrett (so)
Thompson (sr)
Peterson (sr)
Eikmeier (fr)
Vanderbeken (jr)
Brackins (so)
Haluska (sr)

Texas (2.71)
Abrams (sr)
Mason (jr)
James (jr)
Atchley (sr)
Ward (fr)
Johnson (so)
Chapman (so)

Texas A&M (2.71)
Sloan (jr)
Carter (sr)
Davis (jr)
Roland (jr)
Elonu (jr)
Holmes (so)
Harris (fr)

Oklahoma State (2.57)
Anderson (so)
Eaton (sr)
Thomas (so)
Muonelo (jr)
Harris (sr)
Page (fr)
Moses (so)

Baylor (2.43)
Dugat (sr)
Jerrells (sr)
Rogers (sr)
Dunn (so)
Acy (fr)
Jones (fr)
Ellis (fr)

Oklahoma (2.43)
Griffin (so)
Griffin (so)
Warren (fr)
Johnson (sr)
Crocker (jr)
Davis (so)
Wright (jr)

Texas Tech (2.43)
Roberson (so)
Voskuil (sr)
Roberts (so)
Okorie (jr)
Grahm (fr)
Cook (jr)
Singletary (so)

Kansas State (2.29)
Pullen (so)
Kent (sr)
Clemente (jr)
Samuels (fr)
Anderson (so)
Sutton (so)
Brown (so)

Colorado (2.00)
Higgins (so)
Tomlinson (fr)
Dufault (fr)
Thorne (jr)
Crawford (so)
Jackson-Wilson (sr)
Eckoff (fr)

Kansas (1.86)
Collins (jr)
Reed (so)
Morningstar (jr)
Morris (fr)
Aldrich (so)
Taylor (fr)
Releford (fr)

Good analysis - I enjoyed seeing that.

If you are analyzing it as where the teams are going to be in 1, 2, 3 years down the road, you might want to make some adjustments for those likely to leave early. Blake Griffin is sure to leave after this season, so he could be considered a Sr. if you are looking at it like that. Daimon James is another guy who is likely to be drafted after this year. Coach Self is recruiting as if Sherron Collins won't be around next season. After that, there's a number of guys who could leave this season, but will might still leave early. Craig Brackens is probably on that list, along with guys like Cole Aldrich, Willie Warren, James Anderson, and possibly LaceDarius Dunn.

I think when it all shakes out during conference play, KU's top 7 will be more like:

Collins (jr - If Self's recruiting strategy for 2009 is any indication, he probably will go pro after this season, so he's counted as a sr in this analysis)
Taylor (fr)
Reed (so)
Little (jr - currently injured so no minutes)
Aldrich (so - counted as a jr b/c likely he won't be at KU for 3 more seasons)
Markief Morris (fr)
Marcus Morris (fr)

So I guess that gives KU a 2.14 looking at it from this viewpoint. The 8th and 9th guys are also freshmen, so KU is definitely very young. I guess that is expected when the whole team decides to leave all at once.

----

Switching gears, looking at ISU, it seems the most replaceable players are the seniors in our top 7. In my opinion, Haluska, Thompson, and (especially) Peterson are below-average at their position in regards to the Big XII as a whole. The potential of our younger guys far exceeds the current ability of these three seniors, I believe. So ISU's age score is probably inflated as to the true age of the talent on the team. Mac seems to be lining up more and more talent down the road as well, which is great. If ISU can find a way to keep Brackins around for four years and pick up Barnes, the Garrett, Barnes, Brackens trio with a solid supporting cast (Eikmeier as a shooter, for example, would be a huge offensive asset to supplement these three) could have a good shot at putting ISU in the top 3 in the Big XII in 2010-2011.

 

[cybsball20]

The problem is does Gilstrap add that much to this team to make up for the difference in returning talent? Remember, seven teams in the Big XII have top 25 recruiting classes coming in...

 

[cycloneworld]

The problem is does Gilstrap add that much to this team to make up for the difference in returning talent? Remember, seven teams in the Big XII have top 25 recruiting classes coming in...

How many of those are in the North? 2?

 

[cybsball20]

How many of those are in the North? 2?

2. Texas
4. Kansas
9. Oklahoma State
18. Oklahoma
21. Kansas State
23. Texas A&M
25. Baylor

 

[mplscyclone]

How many of those are in the North? 2?

I hate this attitude. It's like "if it's in the South, then its ok since we don't play them much"...

If you have that mentality, we're going to be hovering between 6-9 in the conference every year.

You need to have the goal to be good enough to play anyone competitivley any night, especially in basketball....

 

[mplscyclone]

The problem is does Gilstrap add that much to this team to make up for the difference in returning talent? Remember, seven teams in the Big XII have top 25 recruiting classes coming in...

I agree. Also, we can rip on Colorado all we want, but they're building a practice facility and are stepping up their recruiting game. Not saying it's anything to be worried about yet, but they are a program that's hoping to do bigger things in basketball than they have before...