Sometimes you have to go with your gut.
We certainly would appreciate it if once in a while you followed that little voice in your head telling you to shut up.
WVU vs The Big East....getting ugly
- Thread starter isuno1fan
- Start date
Sometimes you have to go with your gut.
We certainly would appreciate it if once in a while you followed that little voice in your head telling you to shut up.
I don't see any downside here. If WV comes next year super! If not...we sue the balls off of Mizzou. Win or Win. I know we could get our TV contract nullified or whatever but I really don't think they would do that and potentially miss out on the new contract because of bad blood. TV stations will be salivating to sign the New Big12 to a tv contract. Also...side note...What is this new NBC Sports station I saw advertised? Is NBC going to be getting into the bidding wars for a college conference? They already have VS. Seems like they're trying to have enough stations to host a full slate of conference games.
(I'm going to regret replying to this...I just know it.) :smile:
Nothing that you are saying matches up with ANYTHING that has been made public about the realignment process.
1. The Big 12 is not the SEC's competitor...the Big 10 is (and to a lesser extent, the ACC, because of proximity). Not because they don't have great football in the Big 12 (they do), but because there are no people there. Nobody follows the Big 12 outside of Texas and the Great Plains. But there are more people that care about SEC and Big 10 football than anywhere else - even when the Big 10 is weak. There's a reason why the Big 12's TV deals always lagged behind everyone else's.
Check out the top 10 tv ratings for college football games in 2010. 8 of the top 10 games were either the SEC or the Big XII. Not a single ACC conference game in the top 10, not a single Big Ten game in the top 10, etc... Virginia Tech made the only appearance for the ACC in a Sunday night prime time game on ESPN when they played Boise State and it was the only game on tv that night. The Big Ten benefits solely from having the largest population bases in their regional footprint but that statistic can only hold the market hostage for so long when the actual ratings show that even with that huge population advantage nobody is watching your pathetic product. The Big Ten Network was forced on millions of customers who have no interest in watching it yet they foot the bill to fill the Big Ten's pockets. Based on ratings those days will eventually come to an end. It won't be about how many potential viewers are in the area but how many actual viewers turned on the programming and watched it. This is why the Big XII is poised to get a HUGE deal when they renew their tier 1 tv deal with ESPN.
2. It makes Big 12 fans all giddy to think their conference withstood a kill shot from the mighty SEC, but that's not how it went down. If the goal was to destroy the Big 12, they would take OU and OKSt. and watch the tent collapse. If the goal is to maximize revenue, take 2 different schools from higher population states that are willing to join. The SEC was so gun-shy about NOT looking like they destroyed the Big 12 that they put TAMU and MU into a holding pattern until everyone was sure the Big 12 would hold together (and wouldn't start suing everyone.)
The SEC wanted OU and OU said "no thanks". Texas also declared that they had no interest in the SEC and that their position on that would never change. The SEC was gun shy about 1 thing and 1 thing only.... They wanted to attempt to position themselves so that their interference with the Big XII would not result in them being sued for damages into the hundreds of millions of dollars if their actions resulted in the collapse of the Big XII. Notice how they offered no assistance to A&M when this whole thing started? The SEC knew if things went south based on their involvement they would take the heat so they were more then happy to let their new beloved conference partner in A&M.... and now Mizzou to take ALL of the risk if lawsuits start flying. Tactically the SEC has played this one with absolute brilliance. It may not have resulted in their ultimate goal but had it killed the Big XII they were in the position to let A&M and Mizzou take the fall and they would simply wash their hands of the whole thing and potentially remain at 12.
3. Show me ANY data that suggests that Big 12 games (outside of the RRS) draw as many viewers as comparable games from the SEC or Big 10. Destroying the Big 12 doesn't gain the SEC any viewers...folks there will still watch Texas, Oklahoma, or whomever in whatever conference they play in.
Let's just take a look at the Bowl game ratings from the last couple of years...
Ton's of interest in the BCS National Title game last year Auburn vs. Oregon with the Cam Newton saga etc.... drew a 15.29 share. The previous years BCS title game between Bama and Texas drew a 17.17 share. Compare that to the previous year with Florida vs. OU... a 15.80 share. Or how about the year prior to that with LSU and Ohio State.... two heavily followed programs on a national level... a 14.40 share? Ouch. How about the Southern Cal vs. Texas BCS title game.... a 21.7 share... Nice.
How about just other Bowl games...
Texas A&M vs. LSU Cotton Bowl, 5.81 share
VS.
Michigan State vs. Alabama on NYD Cap One Bowl, 3.96 share
Nebraska vs. Washington (rematch) Holiday Bowl, 4.04 share
Oklahoma State vs. Arizona Alamo Bowl, 3.29 share
K-State vs. Syracuse 2pm game on a Friday Pinstripe Bowl, 2.63 share
VS.
Mizzou vs. Iowa Insight Bowl, 2.24 share
Pitt vs. Kentucky BBVA Compass Bowl, 2.56 share
HOW ABOUT THE GREATEST OF ALL-TIME THE MICHIGAN WOLVERINES!!!
Michigan vs. Miss State NYD Gator Bowl, 1.71 share. That rating was lower then the Beef O'Brady's Bowl, Champs Sports Bowl, Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl, GoDaddy.Com Bowl, Hawaii Bowl, Humanitarian Bowl, Las Vegas Bowl, Meineke Car Care Bowl, Military Bowl, New Mexico Bowl, Pinstripe Bowl, Poinsettia Bowl, and it just barely eclipsed the ratings for the Little Ceasars Bowl, Independence Bowl, Armed Forces Bowl, and New Orleans Bowl.
4. NEBRASKA couldn't compete in the Big 12?! This is where your post really goes off the rails. And the SEC couldn't find anyone besides Missouri? How about WVU? They wanted the SEC even more than Mizzou did (if that's possible.) Don't think that West Virginia wouldn't sue the Big 12 too if it meant getting into the SEC as #15 or #16.
Nebraska dominated in the Big 8 with partial qualifiers. Welcome to the Big XII where partial qualifiers were no longer accepted due to conference rules. So... Nebraska graduated all of their partial qualifiers by the end of the late 90's. Then look what happened to their success...
You think that because the Big 12 has produced several teams that have played in the NCG recently, that makes them an elite conference that viewers care about nationally. I'd argue that national viewers only see UT/OU, and view the rest of the conference as an afterthought. We're flyover country, and none of the remaining teams have enough sustained success to make more than a blip on the national map.
Pretty sure that NBC Sports is a re-brand for VS., not a new network. I do believe they would like to get in on more college football though. A deal involving games on NBC and NBC Sports/VS. would be pretty competitive with the FX/FSN package, unless FOX's baseball and NASCAR contracts are running out and they think they want to start putting games on FOX as well (I don't think this is the case though).
(I'm sorry, VeloClone. I just can't let this nonsense slide.)
Check out the top 10 tv ratings for college football games in 2010. 8 of the top 10 games were either the SEC or the Big XII. Not a single ACC conference game in the top 10, not a single Big Ten game in the top 10, etc... Virginia Tech made the only appearance for the ACC in a Sunday night prime time game on ESPN when they played Boise State and it was the only game on tv that night.
Uh...no.
2010 College Football TV Ratings | CollegeSportsInfo.com
Six of the top 10 were SEC. One was the VTech-Boise game. One was a Pac-10 game. One was a regional telecast of USC-Notre Dame and OU/OKSt. (guess which one was shown in the majority of America). And one was a Big 12 game...and it was the CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP!
The Big Ten Network was forced on millions of customers who have no interest in watching it yet they foot the bill to fill the Big Ten's pockets. Based on ratings those days will eventually come to an end. It won't be about how many potential viewers are in the area but how many actual viewers turned on the programming and watched it.
Uh...no.
Illini earn huge Big Ten Conference payout
The BTN revenues have increased 21% in the past year, and are expected to continue to grow. Projections indicate the BTN will bring in a third of a BILLION DOLLARS in 2015. If you have a source besides yourself that says the BTN is doomed, please share.
Nebraska dominated in the Big 8 with partial qualifiers. Welcome to the Big XII where partial qualifiers were no longer accepted due to conference rules. So... Nebraska graduated all of their partial qualifiers by the end of the late 90's. Then look what happened to their success...
Are you referring to their national championship game appearance in 2002? Or their 3 division titles since 2000? Or their 9 bowl games? Sure, they stopped winning multiple national titles like in the 90's. So did Florida and USC. Have they "stopped competing" too?
That's all I have time for, Cyclonestate78.
Check out the top 10 tv ratings for college football games in 2010. 8 of the top 10 games were either the SEC or the Big XII. Not a single ACC conference game in the top 10, not a single Big Ten game in the top 10, etc... Virginia Tech made the only appearance for the ACC in a Sunday night prime time game on ESPN when they played Boise State and it was the only game on tv that night.
Uh...no.
2010 College Football TV Ratings | CollegeSportsInfo.com
Six of the top 10 were SEC. One was the VTech-Boise game. One was a Pac-10 game. One was a regional telecast of USC-Notre Dame and OU/OKSt. (guess which one was shown in the majority of America). And one was a Big 12 game...and it was the CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP!
The Big Ten Network was forced on millions of customers who have no interest in watching it yet they foot the bill to fill the Big Ten's pockets. Based on ratings those days will eventually come to an end. It won't be about how many potential viewers are in the area but how many actual viewers turned on the programming and watched it.
Uh...no.
Illini earn huge Big Ten Conference payout
The BTN revenues have increased 21% in the past year, and are expected to continue to grow. Projections indicate the BTN will bring in a third of a BILLION DOLLARS in 2015. If you have a source besides yourself that says the BTN is doomed, please share.
Nebraska dominated in the Big 8 with partial qualifiers. Welcome to the Big XII where partial qualifiers were no longer accepted due to conference rules. So... Nebraska graduated all of their partial qualifiers by the end of the late 90's. Then look what happened to their success...
Are you referring to their national championship game appearance in 2002? Or their 3 division titles since 2000? Or their 9 bowl games? Sure, they stopped winning multiple national titles like in the 90's. So did Florida and USC. Have they "stopped competing" too?
That's all I have time for, Cyclonestate78.
Just a few flaws in your argument.
First, the Big 12 2nd Tier TV deal was no small pennies. There was some poorly negotiated deals done in the past and the fact is that TV revenue has skyrocketed. If no one cared about Big 12 outside the conference states, than why is it that the Big 12 was the second lowest population of BCS conferences (before the Big East), yet will have a TV deal come 2016 probably better than anyone else in the nation? The Pac has never been able to keep up with the Big 12 for TV revenue despite having a huge population.
Nebraska couldn't compete for the conference. Nebraska never could knock off OU or UT to claim the conference and that ticked NU fans off. Let's face it, Nebraska fans are proud and the 90's was extraordinary run for that program. It is hard to go back to 3rd or 4th seat when you used to being in 1st. Also, the SEC didn't want WVU because of what this thread is about. They didn't want to deal with "are they going to be able to get out of the BigEast or not?".
Last, Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, TCU and West Virginia are all former, current or future members of the Big 12 that have been to BCS games. Notice who is missing from that list? All of the schools that have been poached to or from the Big 12 had been to a BCS game except Missouri. Missouri wasn't the SEC's first option, it was WVU, but the SEC didn't want to get drug into a legal battle. You said yourself that the SEC was trying to stay away from lawsuits, there was no way to get WVU without.
I give up, 78. You win. Facts are meaningless. The SEC's only business objective is to screw over the Big 12, it's true. Mike Slive is trying to woo TCU as we speak.
As the Big 12 adds more Big East teams, it will continue to become more and more lucrative, until the only organizations able to afford to bid on the rights to Big 12 games are Google and Saudi Arabia.
Cable subscribers who have been forced to pay for channels like the Eternal Life Network, the Golf Channel, and OWN will finally reach the last straw with the BTN, and the subsequent revolt will at last result in ala carte pricing.
And Nebraska did indeed owe its success to partial qualifiers (which were severely limited by the Big 12 in 1996). Big 12 looks ahead as meetings finish 05/23/1996 | Archives | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
Those partial qualifiers, many of whom were sixth- or seventh-year seniors for Nebraska in 2002, were the sole reason for their success. That's why the Huskers were kicked out of the Big 12 in 2010...lack of competitive ability.
I applaud you for your dedication to these bogus arguments, 78. Like Porkins in his X-wing, you'll ride this position to its fiery conclusion, reality be damned.
You win. Uncle.
As the Big 12 adds more Big East teams, it will continue to become more and more lucrative, until the only organizations able to afford to bid on the rights to Big 12 games are Google and Saudi Arabia.
Cable subscribers who have been forced to pay for channels like the Eternal Life Network, the Golf Channel, and OWN will finally reach the last straw with the BTN, and the subsequent revolt will at last result in ala carte pricing.
And Nebraska did indeed owe its success to partial qualifiers (which were severely limited by the Big 12 in 1996). Big 12 looks ahead as meetings finish 05/23/1996 | Archives | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
Those partial qualifiers, many of whom were sixth- or seventh-year seniors for Nebraska in 2002, were the sole reason for their success. That's why the Huskers were kicked out of the Big 12 in 2010...lack of competitive ability.
I applaud you for your dedication to these bogus arguments, 78. Like Porkins in his X-wing, you'll ride this position to its fiery conclusion, reality be damned.
You win. Uncle.
Sweet, so you are moving on to be with those in your new conference? Have fun with all your future conversations when they end with some redneck imbred chanting SEC-SEC-SEC. That won't get old.
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I'll say one thing. Nebraska in 2002 was a shadow of its teams in the 90's and in reality had no business playing for the NC since they didn't even win the Big 12 North. It was the start of a pretty big decline for them. To say that partial qualifiers had no impact on their rise and fall as a program is pretty ignorant.
The 1996 recruiting class would have been the last one where Nebraska could have loaded up on partial qualifiers as most recruiting would have been done prior to this rule being put into effect. It's likely most of those kids would have redshirted and would have finished their careers at Nebraska in 2000. The 2001 season would have been the first season that Nebraska had to play without their partial qualifiers and that season Nebraska ended up playing in the title game at the Rose Bowl on Jan. 3, 2002.
The next season... 2002-2003 (coincidentally the year after Eric Crouch the Heisman Trophy winner graduated) Nebraska went straight down the crapper losing an amazing 7 games that season.
