As a youth and high school sports official, i can not believe how much money there is in youth athletics.
Youth Sports.........
- Thread starter CRCy
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You can live vicariously through your kids in a whole bunch of different activities. Walk through an animal barn at your local fair or through state fair and ask how much the owner paid for their steer, pig, etc. or kids that drive race cars. This isn't just a sports issue.
As with anything, you have to balance your attitude and approach. We've always asked our kids if they are ok with their level of participation, but we want them to have something in their life, in addition to their studies that they are working to excel at.
In my experience, the time we get with our kids in working out with them, supporting them, and spending game weekends with them is invaluable. The lessons from competing are valuable.
My son got that experience from school band. One daughter is getting it from school and local sports. One daughter wanted more and better competition and does the travel circuit with s modest travel team.
As with anything, you have to balance your attitude and approach. We've always asked our kids if they are ok with their level of participation, but we want them to have something in their life, in addition to their studies that they are working to excel at.
In my experience, the time we get with our kids in working out with them, supporting them, and spending game weekends with them is invaluable. The lessons from competing are valuable.
My son got that experience from school band. One daughter is getting it from school and local sports. One daughter wanted more and better competition and does the travel circuit with s modest travel team.
I watched this last night. I really hope those parents watched that documentary and saw themselves.
My thoughts:
The key is to find the balance that works for the kid and family. My kids don't play one sport year round- they play in rec for some sports and travel for others. For the travel sports we keep it real- nothing too intense and no extensive travel. Good coaches who teach skills and sportsmanship, and the attitude that winning is good but is not everything. Fun is key. I've removed my kids from travel clubs where the cost got to be too much.
I will say that I myself enjoy the kids' travel sports. I enjoy spending a day at a baseball park watching my son play, win or lose, or a day at an arena watching my daughter in a volleyball tournament. I've been lucky that the kids' travel teams consist of good kids and good families, and we enjoy spending time together. In the travel sports' offseason I enjoy watching them play their rec sports.
One more thought- I think one reason travel sports become such a big deal for the 10yo to the 14yo kids/families is that this might be the kids' only chance to compete like this. So many kids go to such giant high schools that, unless you're pretty elite, you'll never make the basketball/baseball/volleyball teams. Middle school is the golden years of youth sports for most of these kids.
The key is to find the balance that works for the kid and family. My kids don't play one sport year round- they play in rec for some sports and travel for others. For the travel sports we keep it real- nothing too intense and no extensive travel. Good coaches who teach skills and sportsmanship, and the attitude that winning is good but is not everything. Fun is key. I've removed my kids from travel clubs where the cost got to be too much.
I will say that I myself enjoy the kids' travel sports. I enjoy spending a day at a baseball park watching my son play, win or lose, or a day at an arena watching my daughter in a volleyball tournament. I've been lucky that the kids' travel teams consist of good kids and good families, and we enjoy spending time together. In the travel sports' offseason I enjoy watching them play their rec sports.
One more thought- I think one reason travel sports become such a big deal for the 10yo to the 14yo kids/families is that this might be the kids' only chance to compete like this. So many kids go to such giant high schools that, unless you're pretty elite, you'll never make the basketball/baseball/volleyball teams. Middle school is the golden years of youth sports for most of these kids.
That is one way to look at it. The other way is if these players stay on as the star of a lower level team they don't have to develop their game because they can just dominate the league on pure athletic ability rather than skill. I see a lot of really good players with really bad habits because they can overcome those horrible habits by just being faster or stronger - for example - than the other kids. If they are playing against other kids who are just as fast and just as strong they are forced to fix the holes in their play if they want to continue being successful.
I have also seen a lot of "star" players who are terrible leaders. They think the only way to lead is to do everything themselves rather than pulling each other up. If you are on a select team and you try to do that the other team is going to find the hole you left while you are neglecting your responsibilities trying to do too much.
I don't think there is one right answer in this. The select teams are playing other select teams so they are facing top competition game in and game out as well as that competition in practice.
And for the record, I don't have, and never have had, a kid playing at the select level.
It's a two way problem right now. My kids are pretty young so we're just starting to see some of this.
1. My kid played rec league basketball last year when he was 6. The coach was awful. He never sat his kid, who played the whole game every game. He made zero effort to coach any kid but his own. His kid had a terrible attitude. Really, really soured me on rec league stuff in general.
2. I was the coach of my kid's little league team this year. Had a great time, parents were fantastic, really enjoyed the entire experience honestly. However my kid would love to watch some of the tournaments that happened in Ankeny. Even like the 10U teams were absolutely insane. Banners hung on the back of dugouts for each player, some just wild parents, etc.
3. The only club team my kid plays on is soccer, and I love the league. For one, parents have to be silent, so the overbearing loonies are under control. This is easily my kids' favorite sport, and I literally know nothing about it, so it's purely his experience.
I think it really depends on the kid and the structure of the league and the coaching. Rec leagues can be awesome or awful. Parents can be awesome or awful. Club teams can be awesome or awful.
I will also reiterate how bummed it makes me a little bit that kids don't just play sports together anymore. I live across the street from a park and kids almost never play sports together. I bring stuff over there a lot to play with my kids and sometimes kids will jump in or I will invite them but it's usually just a few of them.
1. My kid played rec league basketball last year when he was 6. The coach was awful. He never sat his kid, who played the whole game every game. He made zero effort to coach any kid but his own. His kid had a terrible attitude. Really, really soured me on rec league stuff in general.
2. I was the coach of my kid's little league team this year. Had a great time, parents were fantastic, really enjoyed the entire experience honestly. However my kid would love to watch some of the tournaments that happened in Ankeny. Even like the 10U teams were absolutely insane. Banners hung on the back of dugouts for each player, some just wild parents, etc.
3. The only club team my kid plays on is soccer, and I love the league. For one, parents have to be silent, so the overbearing loonies are under control. This is easily my kids' favorite sport, and I literally know nothing about it, so it's purely his experience.
I think it really depends on the kid and the structure of the league and the coaching. Rec leagues can be awesome or awful. Parents can be awesome or awful. Club teams can be awesome or awful.
I will also reiterate how bummed it makes me a little bit that kids don't just play sports together anymore. I live across the street from a park and kids almost never play sports together. I bring stuff over there a lot to play with my kids and sometimes kids will jump in or I will invite them but it's usually just a few of them.
We just started Fall soccer for my 6 y/o and we have 2 other kids that are doing multiple sports (1 hockey, 1 baseball). It is 4-on-4 soccer and we only have 6 kids on the team so it really screws everyone else when their kids are going to miss. I have no idea why you would put a 6-7 year old in two sports at once.
I can assume this is only going to get worse as they get older.
I can assume this is only going to get worse as they get older.
This is another problem. In many cases seasons are longer and longer now which force parents to choose earlier and earlier because coaches freak out if a kid is going to miss a game. Instead of having set "seasons" they overlap on occasion.
Also, they are 6, I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things if a kid misses a game. You make an adjustment and go from there. Take a kid from the other team, see if the other coach/ref will play 3 vs. 3 etc. It isn't the F'ing World Cup it's 4 vs. 4 6 year old soccer....
Not a rant against you just a general failure of why some parents forget why they are having their kids play in the first place
And what happens to the kid that was undersized at 8 who quit playing baseball, soccer, football, basketball, etc. because he had developed as fast as the rest of his teammates?
The problem with the set up of select teams is they are SELECT. A year or two of playing with the same kids, hanging out with the same families the likelihood that a kid is going to leave the team to open up a spot for a kid that might be better then them is slim to none. If you do have try outs than you are pissing off parents that have been on a team for a long time.
It's stupid. It's a game, at any age below 12 it should be about having fun, trying your best, development, and enjoying playing a sport with other kids their age. Not about some stupid $10 trophy or ring at some stupid weekend tournament.
I don't know about leagues around you, but all of the traveling clubs I'm aware of around here have annual tryouts and there is significant movement because not everyone develops at the same rate or is serious about improving. If a parent is pissed off because their kid gets passed by the kid that was the runt before, that is a problem with the parents and sports, not a problem with the system. Kids have a poorer chance of maximizing development if playing with and against peers who they overpower. You see it frequently with kids who dominate at small schools but when they go to college can't hack it against competition their same size and speed. The flip side of that is that often kids just starting out a little later than others or who develop slower have a hard time getting up to speed when they are getting dominated by kids on their team and in their league who should be playing on a team at a higher level. They will often get frustrated after just one year if they don't get a chance to see a little bit of success.
I agree with the sentiment of your last paragraph. I have not encountered any select or premier teams around here that are below about age 14 however. In soccer here they have U9 and U10 gold(lower) and maroon(higher) squads. At U11-U17 they have C-3(lower) to C-1(higher). I think premier gets added in at around 15. Kids on the premier squads are also likely dominating (or at least leading) on their school's varsity squads as well.
On a closing note, we have one club up here who is more expensive than the others in the area, has exclusively paid coaches and (up until this year*) had their tryouts earlier than other clubs. They would then offer and demand a commitment from kids before they had a chance to weigh their options at other clubs. The result is they have essentially a second team of C-1 players playing in a C-2 league and their actual C-2 players playing in the C-3 league. This isn't good for the teams they are whipping week in and week out and it isn't good for their teams who aren't getting true competition. Let's just say that their tactics (both at the club leadership level and on the field) are pretty much universally hated throughout the rest of the league.
*It took legislation by the state governing body to end this practice and level the playing field for all clubs.
I like to think that my wife and I are doing this right. We started our daughter in soccer when she was 4 or 5. It was meant as a way to be active. We did that for a while until her team disbanded and we didn't get back into it. We then tried cheerleading and she stuck with that for a couple years. At the same time, she was at a smaller K-8 school and she tried basketball, volleyball, and soccer again. She ended up liking volleyball the most. We didn't make her continue with a sport once she came to us to say she didn't want to do it any more. The exception being that if she started a season, she had to finish it.
We switched schools and she played VB in middle school and nothing else. She showed a passion for the sport so we put her on a league team in 8th grade. That was a very positive experience and we found a VB gym that fit our family (in terms of cost, coaching, sportsmanship, etc.). Fast forward to this summer where she was getting ready to enter high school. The HS team had strength/conditioning and open gyms all summer long. She also tried out for a club team for the first time. She ended up making the top tier national team for this gym. She also made her HS team.
My point here is to not make the kids specialize in a sport when they are too young (less than 12?). Also, it's okay if they try something and don't like it. There are other sports and activities out there. And, once they do start to show a passion or talent for a sport, that's when you should consider throwing money around. Even though this club team will be expensive, we would be fine if, at the end of the season, she says she doesn't want to do club again. (I could buy a couple of really nice bikes for what we're spending!) I don't think we would see that money as a waste if/when she quits. It will have been money well spent on what we think will be a good experience - similar to a nice vacation. Now that we are in HS, we do have a pie-in-the-sky dream that this might lead to a scholarship (to any level of college). But, hey, it's a dream at this point and not something that we are all driving towards. If it happens, it happens.
Full disclosure: We did pressure her to try out for the HS team. She wasn't having a lot of fun with open gyms but we wanted her to try out and see if the team atmosphere would be different. Since she was an incoming freshman, we also thought it would be a great way to meet new friends. Worst case scenario, she doesn't make a team but that became a non-issue. And, even if she made the team but didn't like it, the HS season is only a couple of months long. I will say this was the first time we pressured her to do something that she didn't necessarily want to do. So far, it has turned out fine.
We switched schools and she played VB in middle school and nothing else. She showed a passion for the sport so we put her on a league team in 8th grade. That was a very positive experience and we found a VB gym that fit our family (in terms of cost, coaching, sportsmanship, etc.). Fast forward to this summer where she was getting ready to enter high school. The HS team had strength/conditioning and open gyms all summer long. She also tried out for a club team for the first time. She ended up making the top tier national team for this gym. She also made her HS team.
My point here is to not make the kids specialize in a sport when they are too young (less than 12?). Also, it's okay if they try something and don't like it. There are other sports and activities out there. And, once they do start to show a passion or talent for a sport, that's when you should consider throwing money around. Even though this club team will be expensive, we would be fine if, at the end of the season, she says she doesn't want to do club again. (I could buy a couple of really nice bikes for what we're spending!) I don't think we would see that money as a waste if/when she quits. It will have been money well spent on what we think will be a good experience - similar to a nice vacation. Now that we are in HS, we do have a pie-in-the-sky dream that this might lead to a scholarship (to any level of college). But, hey, it's a dream at this point and not something that we are all driving towards. If it happens, it happens.
Full disclosure: We did pressure her to try out for the HS team. She wasn't having a lot of fun with open gyms but we wanted her to try out and see if the team atmosphere would be different. Since she was an incoming freshman, we also thought it would be a great way to meet new friends. Worst case scenario, she doesn't make a team but that became a non-issue. And, even if she made the team but didn't like it, the HS season is only a couple of months long. I will say this was the first time we pressured her to do something that she didn't necessarily want to do. So far, it has turned out fine.
I think that's the key. As long as your kids want to do the traveling and put up with the hectic schedules and you can fford it, more power to you. But I suspect there are a lot of parents out there forcing their kids into the traveling team and AAU circuit whether they want to do it or not.
Agree big time with the bolded part. I'll encourage my kids to try any sport or activity, but the caveat is that if they start a class or season, they have to finish it. If they're done with it after that, fine.
Kingdom Hoops this year is $4700. Yep, that is the real number and that does not include uniforms.
We have said the same thing to our daughter. If you make the commitment, you finish it. But she can opt to not try out again whenever she wants.
On Sunday my daughter didn't want to go to goalkeeper training. (She is a part time keeper but their fall team doesn't have a full time GK.) She also didn't want to wear the padded undershorts that she and her mom picked up this offseason because she thought they would be too hot. After the practice, I was shocked when she thanked me for making her do both.
Our daughter also tried many sports before she decided she liked soccer and wanted to stick with it. That doesn't stop her from playing (junior high) varsity and/or JV in other sports.
I helped coach my sons' 10U baseball last summer, loved it and plan on coaching 11U with the same team next year. I think it all comes down to the team though. I think there are 7 different 11U teams in Waterloo/Cedar Falls ranging from laid back to batshit crazy. My wife and I made the decision that if our kids want to do a sport they'd have to do rec for a couple years before jumping into travel ball. The problem is a lot of these rec teams are just babysitters for irresponsible parents so with our youngest one he's probably going to play travel baseball next year too instead of a second year of rec. It's a bit more money for us but I really think it's much better organized and all the parents have a bit more skin in the game so to speak. At the end of the day for both kids I want to make sure they have fun though. I'm not going to force them into any sports or other activities but if they want to do it I'm going to look hard at the club teams from here on out I think.
In travel softball, at least, 10u and 12u parents are notorious for not knowing their asses from a hole in the ground. They're obnoxious, loud, and love to brag their kids up. Things start to settle down at 14u and those parents mostly gone by now. You'd see an entirely different scene if you had watched the older kids play. By that point, the most obnoxious parents have already had a detrimental effect on their kids (because the coaches can't stand them, and no matter how good their kid is, the family doesn't get asked back in the fall). The other parents, who were cool the whole time, are still cool, obviously.
I love all the parents that say their kid is on an 11 year old "Elite" team when the only requirement is if you have a 1800 check that will clear.
It also seems to be parents that aren't overly athletic and either never played much in high school or peaked at high school. All that money is just going to change their genetics and make their kid a 6'4" point guard, just ask them.
It also seems to be parents that aren't overly athletic and either never played much in high school or peaked at high school. All that money is just going to change their genetics and make their kid a 6'4" point guard, just ask them.
and to me, that is asinine. I feel bad for the kids (most of them) who have to live up to a $5000 league and who won't do anything with it past high-school...and who will listen to the "I paid almost $5,000 for you to play like that?" speech on the way home.
