Younkers Stores to Close in Iowa
- Thread starter SaraV
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Of course it's possible. Detroit is purposing razing whole neighborhoods.
Here is the thing though about disruptive technology. I made the point earlier about increasing numbers of people working remotely. What if this trend continues, or accelerates?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/15/us/remote-workers-work-from-home.html
Honestly big cities, with huge buildings that require a ton of water, power, etc. could be absolutely decimated. For example, one of the big appeals to living downtown in Des Moines is that you are close to work. What if proximity to your work doesn't matter? What if these big corporations decide they need 1000 less workers at some of their locations? That's what I mean by this guy being short sighted. He's looking at the disruptive forces of the internet only insofar as it's already happened or is happening. There are bigger shockwaves to come.
Believe it or not, there are multiple 2 bedroom APARTMENTS downtown or on the fringes of downtown that cost 1500+ per month at barely over 1000 square feet. If you see that and don't understand the appeal of the burbs you're out of your mind. Whatever people in Des Moines, in some areas are saving in infrastructure costs they are absolutely losing in total lunacy housing costs.
I appreciate your thoughtful comments. I do have to push back and ask when I suggested there is no appeal of the burbs? I’ve lived in West Des Moines (still own a townhome there) and Ankeny before moving to Des Moines. I totally get the appeal. My point is, a lot of it is not financial sustainable long term.
Also, I never lived in downtown Des Moines, but could see it someday if I can convince the wife. That said, I think it is funny that people continue to pontificate about downtown whenever we have discussions like this. There is so much out there in terms of traditional development the falls between downtowns and suburbia.
But again, my comments are not about personal preferences. That is like the arguing about music or food. It is really an exercise in futility.
You are totally correct. We don’t know what twists and turns the future will hold. What will self-driving vehicles mean to the landscape? That is kind of the point as well. Post WWII we went all out as a nation and started building our cities in a way that had never been done before in human history. We ignored 1000’s of years of trial and error in what worked and didn’t work when building productive places and just went full boar into this experiential development pattern called suburbia.
Finally, I wouldn’t brush off Chuck Marohn as some lightweight who sticks his finger in the wind. He gave up a career as a civil engineer and regional planner to study, write, and speak on these issues. In his prior carrier, he helped build suburbia, so he fully understands the finances behind. Additionally, he believes strongly in the theories, philosophies, and beliefs of Nassim Taleb (among others) and has had several conversations with him (so it isn’t just admiration from afar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb
You have the right to your opinion. I just caution and challenge you to consider what the foundation is for your conclusions. I would strongly suggest there is little that is initiative about this topic.
CCG,
Really enjoy your posts and thoughts on planning. Thanks.
My design bible continues to be; A Pattern Language: Towns, Buildings, Construction.
It’s not always the most convenient either. My point is they’ve won the battle in the mind of many consumers that they are cheapest and/or most convenient regardless of if they actually are or not. That’s gold, it’s how Wal Mart dominated the 90s.
I think Barnes and Noble ends up eking out a living. A couple of these bookstore chains will end up making it, albeit with a smaller footprint.
liquidation sales will only apply to yellow dot items not for a door buster clearance.
Millennials aren't interested in big chains, box stores, unless it's an online purchase.. They prefer no interfacing with salespeople. They're not buying new cars or homes either,compared to other generations
Ah, warms my heart to see a full fledged city planning argument break out on CF. Lots of things will be changing as retail continues to change. Several very good points made here and a good thread read. Also, I'm glad to be in a town now that is not still living on the suburban growth machine. Not because we were smart,we just ran out of room! Nonetheless, building up is more fun!
I kind of glossed over this - no, it's not. It's directly tied to it. Again, I checked zillow. There are about 40 houses even comparable to the one I live in currently on the market everywhere between I35 and I80. Most of them would take 50-100k of renovations to bring into the 21st century. If there were suddenly 500 people trying to get into those homes, it would massively inflate those home prices.
Small town Iowa lost their businesses to the lower prices and greater variety of drivable urban areas decades ago. However, Amazon and other online retailers are a lot easier than driving to Des Moines.
Hard to shop for teenage boys without them actually trying on the clothes though, they seem to grow constantly. And when they need a suit, you don’t really need some last for years number that they will outgrow in six months.
Hard to shop for teenage boys without them actually trying on the clothes though, they seem to grow constantly. And when they need a suit, you don’t really need some last for years number that they will outgrow in six months.
Hope some of us amateur interested parties, not trained like you, aren’t making ourselves look too foolish.
Yes, given Fed government policy/related lending practices post WWII, there really isn’t much to constrain continuing to build on the edges of cities beyond running out of room. The expansion Is easily financed (i.e…developers often pay for all or a majority of the costs to put in infrastructure) .
The problem: The cities now own all this and there generally is not adequate tax revenue stream down the road (pun intended) to repair and maintain long term…..and Federal and State governments aren’t exactly rolling in extra cash these days to assist. Some of these areas are starting to get old and a lot of this was built fast and cheap and thus doesn’t age particularly well. Stack on top of that the anticipation of no longer being able to count on retail commercial property taxes like they have in the past…well….the writing is on the wall.
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I’m not saying it is not an issue, I’m just suggesting it has nothing to do with explaining why the experimental suburban development pattern is or is not financially sustainable long term.
Yes, if today I want to buy as much square footage with all the desired modern amenities for the best price, I’m pretty much forced into a suburban subdivision. This only explains the realities of current supply. I never made a claimed otherwise.
The “whys” behind it are complicated and again, a different topic. I have plenty of sources that that have studied and that speak to this topic, and will be happy to IM you if truly interested.
On this thread however, I’m not interested in chasing that rabbit as my main point was a heads up for people to maybe add another factor into their housing buying searches. You don’t want to drop your life savings into a house if sometime while you still own it, you’re next to, or in the vicinity of empty big box stores and a dead/or dying mall(s). Those aren’t only bad for home values….your city will be hurting for property tax revenue as well.
I believe the tax revenue shortfall was going to happen eventually anyway given the development pattern, I am just suggesting the retail environment change is going to accelerate the decline a bit faster than anticipated.
Big Box stores killed the Mom and Pop stores.
Online killed (is killing) the Big Box stores.
What will kill the online shopping???
