MLB: Twins fans 2nd half GM

[FDWxMan]

Ok Twins fans...only 6.5 games out at the break...hardly would be a comeback at this point with the Twins lately.

Riding a 24-11 stretch into the break to shave 10! games off the deficit. Still need to get healthy and probably a few more pieces just to pull out the Central again, which is likely their ceiling, barring everyone getting healthy AND back to full speed, which probably isn't realistic.

Anyway, what are your moves here for the rest of the month to get the Twins the extra push? Trades, recalls dfa's...

Today the Twins activated Young and recalled Plouffe. Tosoni and Rivera are back to Rochester. What's next?

Remember in the next two weeks it sounds like you will also need to activate Span and Kubel. Other than that, retool away (hint: do something about the bullpen please, like, maybe a completely new one).

 

[FDWxMan]

Here is what I would do:

Activate Kubel, send down Repko
Activate Span, send down Hughes
Recall Chuck James, send down Mijares
Recall Anthony Slama, send down Burnett
Trade Liriano & DFA Dumatrait, purchase contract of Kyle Gibson from Rochester. Eric Hacker and Jim Hoey likely DFA'd to clear roster space with trade. Looking for some combination of pitching/middle inf/C help.

Might try and find a way to get Carlos Guiterrez some time up, could be through DFA of Hacker or Hoey if Liriano not traded.

 

[RING4CY]

So you want to trade Liriano so the Twins can bring up a guy who has never pitched in the majors in Kyle Gibson? At 3-7 and a 4.17 in Triple-A Rochester, what has Gibson done to show he's ready for the majors?

Then you want to trade Liriano for pitching help.

You're going to have to explain your reasoning, cause I don't understand it.

 

[FDWxMan]

So you want to trade Liriano so the Twins can bring up a guy who has never pitched in the majors in Kyle Gibson? At 3-7 and a 4.17 in Triple-A Rochester, what has Gibson done to show he's ready for the majors?

Then you want to trade Liriano for pitching help.

You're going to have to explain your reasoning, cause I don't understand it.

I'm not necessarily replacing Liriano with Gibson, good chance Gibson will start off in BP when called up anyway, that's more what I'm implying. Stick him in the bullpen/spot start .

Just meaning I would get Gibson up at some point this year, so he can cut his teeth a little bit before next year, I probably should have listed those separately, but I was going a little more off of where I could make the roster space.

But yeah, I would move Liriano if at all possible. By pitching help, it could be relief or starting or whatever, but I'm for getting rid of him ASAP if they can get a decent haul.

He's been exceptionally wild all year, and is walking guys at nearly twice the rate he was last year...and the highest rate he's ever done. Which tells me he's either not healthy, or a complete head case that cannot keep his confidence up the second something goes wrong.

5-7 with a 5.06 ERA and this guy is irreplaceable? Please.

Edit: Strikeout rate also lowest of career.

 

[FDWxMan]

The Twins have made it pretty clear they are not crazy about signing him to a long term deal, and I'm guessing if they can get a decent haul they would do it now in a heartbeat. (with deadline overpaying and almost a year and a half of team control I think you could get it.) I also don't think they want to roll the dice on him actually coming through doing enough for Type A status so they could get draft picks next year.

Put it this way. When Liriano is starting a game, and I jump in the car and turn on the radio, or pull up the box score online, I'm expecting to see him laboring through the 4th down 5-2, not excited about the possibility of what miraculous thing he's going to do.

So, if you can find some of those enamored still with the legend (pre-TJ) rather that the reality post TJ, fleece them for all their worth, just like how they got him with AJ in the first place.

 

[RING4CY]

If the Twins were sellers this year, I would be okay with dealing Liriano, but I really don't think they're going to be sellers. The Twins were 16.5 games back June 1st. Now they're 6.5 games back. They gained 10 games in the standings in the span of 40 days. Outside of the bullpen (I'll take anyone but Matt Capps in the closer role right now,) there isn't a whole lot I would change.

Yes, Liriano is 5-7 this year, but he was also 1-4 with a 9.13 ERA at the end of April. Liriano had an extremely rough April. But since the beginning May, he’s having one bad outing a month, otherwise he’s been pitching well.

Bad starts since May:

4 earned runs in 3 innings pitched in 10-2 loss to Detroit on May 10.
5 earned runs in 3.2 innings pitched in 11-1 loss to Milwaukee on June 25.
5 earned runs in 4.1 innings pitched in 12-5 loss to Tampa Bay on July 6.

Other starts since May:

No hitter against White Sox 1-0 win on May 3rd.*
1 earned run in 7 innings pitched in 2-1 win against Seattle on May 17.*
2 earned runs in 6 innings pitched in 3-2 loss to Arizona on May 22.*
0 earned runs in 5 innings pitched in 1-0 loss to Cleveland on June 7.
1 earned run in 8 innings pitched in 6-1 win against Texas on June 12.*
3 earned runs in 7 innings pitched in 5-4 win against San Diego on June 19.*
2 earned runs in 7 innings pitched in 6-2 win against Milwaukee on July 1st.*

*Quality start. That 6 quality starts since the beginning of May. That’s not bad considering the way he pitched through the first month of the season.

If the Twins were to deal Liriano for bullpen help, who do you have taking his spot in the starting rotation?

 

[FDWxMan]

Fair argument. Obviously I'm not saying trading Liriano is the ONLY way, but it's probably the way I'm leaning as the most productive for the Twins, IF they try to buy at the deadline.

As for who takes his place...that is a good question, I suppose it depends on what you got back in the deal, hopefully its more than just a bullpen arm, maybe it is a starter, but maybe the package comes back more offense heavy, so I'm not sure. How long does Swarzak keep pitching well?

Again, we're talking about replace what has been, to this point, arguably the Twins 4th or 5th best starter this year. Shouldn't be too difficult to reproduce his *overall* production from the first half through the rest of the year.

 

[FDWxMan]

I just don't think they have the horses to do it strictly internally, especially since the odds of everyone getting healthy and back in a groove are slimmer by the day.
So I'm just spitballing, and with trades, you have to GIVE something to GET something.

The Twins are extremely light on desirable trade chips:
Kubel, but he got hurt.
Cuddyer, but that's conceding the season, no?
Baker, best pitcher they have right now...plus injury cloud, not happening.
Mauer, not happening.
Liriano.

Those are the only guys I see bringing back anything that MIGHT be immediately useful.

They'll probably keep Liriano at least until the offseason, and I'm ok with that, but the only problem is the longer they hold on to him hoping to see some sort of flash, the longer he may continue to flop around in mediocrity and inconsistency until they're eventually left holding a bag of steaming dog poo at next year's deadline.


What are your ideas? Buy? Sell? Stand Pat?

 

[jhill]

I just don't think they have the horses to do it strictly internally, especially since the odds of everyone getting healthy and back in a groove are slimmer by the day.
So I'm just spitballing, and with trades, you have to GIVE something to GET something.

The Twins are extremely light on desirable trade chips:
Kubel, but he got hurt.
Cuddyer, but that's conceding the season, no?
Baker, best pitcher they have right now...plus injury cloud, not happening.
Mauer, not happening.
Liriano.

Those are the only guys I see bringing back anything that MIGHT be immediately useful.

They'll probably keep Liriano at least until the offseason, and I'm ok with that, but the only problem is the longer they hold on to him hoping to see some sort of flash, the longer he may continue to flop around in mediocrity and inconsistency until they're eventually left holding a bag of steaming dog poo at next year's deadline.


What are your ideas? Buy? Sell? Stand Pat?

I am a seller. Think they dug too deep of a hole. Still need to jump three teams. I think you trade either Span or Revere -- same player, so it doesn't make sense to keep them both. Trade Young -- he probably won't re-sign and has been a bit of a disappointment so acquired. Look to see what you can get for Slowey -- probably not much. Not going into liquidation, just trading some parts that don't seem to have a home anymore -- try to re-stock the farm system. Think it may also be time to consider moving Morneau, if the right deal can be made when he returns. Mauer might have a home a first.

Casilla and Valencia appear to be keepers. Noshioka is still a question mark, but seems solid at short. Like what I have seen of Hughes so far, at least as a utility guy.

 

[FDWxMan]

I am a seller. Think they dug too deep of a hole. Still need to jump three teams. I think you trade either Span or Revere -- same player, so it doesn't make sense to keep them both. Trade Young -- he probably won't re-sign and has been a bit of a disappointment so acquired. Look to see what you can get for Slowey -- probably not much. Not going into liquidation, just trading some parts that don't seem to have a home anymore -- try to re-stock the farm system. Think it may also be time to consider moving Morneau, if the right deal can be made when he returns. Mauer might have a home a first.

Casilla and Valencia appear to be keepers. Noshioka is still a question mark, but seems solid at short. Like what I have seen of Hughes so far, at least as a utility guy.

I think there's probably a good chance Young is dangled, after the season.
I don't believe Morneau would be tradeable at this point. I don't think anyone touches him for even a remotely fair price until he has a healthy year.

Span/Revere are quite similar so maybe you could see a move but who is your outfield if you are minus Young, down one of Span Revere, and Cuddyer/Kubel as free agents?

Not sure I'd want a Repko/Span/Tosoni outfield, so something big league ready with pop would have to comeback in a trade and/or resign Cuddyer.

Joe Benson is one to keep an eye on for OF, but he's only in AA, maybe Cuddyer's replacement in 2012 at the earliest?

 

[jhill]

I think there's probably a good chance Young is dangled, after the season.
I don't believe Morneau would be tradeable at this point. I don't think anyone touches him for even a remotely fair price until he has a healthy year.

Span/Revere are quite similar so maybe you could see a move but who is your outfield if you are minus Young, down one of Span Revere, and Cuddyer/Kubel as free agents?

Not sure I'd want a Repko/Span/Tosoni outfield, so something big league ready with pop would have to comeback in a trade and/or resign Cuddyer.

Joe Benson is one to keep an eye on for OF, but he's only in AA, maybe Cuddyer's replacement in 2012 at the earliest?

I would try to keep Cuddyer, Span or Revere and Kubel. I would hope to trade Young for some talent that is close to being major league ready. I really like the versatility of Cuddyer, so I would like to keep him. Think they should be able to keep Kubel for a reasonable price. Agree on Morneau -- but might still try offering him to see if anybody bites.

 

[RING4CY]

I am a seller. Think they dug too deep of a hole. Still need to jump three teams. I think you trade either Span or Revere -- same player, so it doesn't make sense to keep them both. Trade Young -- he probably won't re-sign and has been a bit of a disappointment so acquired. Look to see what you can get for Slowey -- probably not much. Not going into liquidation, just trading some parts that don't seem to have a home anymore -- try to re-stock the farm system. Think it may also be time to consider moving Morneau, if the right deal can be made when he returns. Mauer might have a home a first.

Casilla and Valencia appear to be keepers. Noshioka is still a question mark, but seems solid at short. Like what I have seen of Hughes so far, at least as a utility guy.

The only team the Twins need to worry about in the 2nd half of the season is the Detroit Tigers. Cleveland is fading and fading fast. I again go back to June 1st when the Twins were 16.5 games back. Cleveland was 13 games over .500 at 33-20, and a 5-game lead on Detroit. Now they're 47-42, and a 1/2 game out of first. While the Twins have gained 10 games in the standings over the last 40 days, the Indians are 14-22 in those same 40 days. Plus the Twins have continued their dominance of the White Sox, and are only 1.5 games behind Chicago, and still play the White Sox another 9 times in the second half of the season.

The Twins just completed a 4-game with Chicago in the middle of a span of 16 straight games against divisional opponents. The Twins have coming out of the All-Star break a 4-game series against Kansas City, a 4-game series against Cleveland, and a 4-game series against Detroit, all played in Minnesota. The final game of that stretch is on July 24th. So, the Twins will have a much better idea then if they're a contender in the division or not. Then they'll have a week before the deadline to decide if they're going to be buyers, sellers, or if they're just going to stay put.

 

[jhill]

The only team the Twins need to worry about in the 2nd half of the season is the Detroit Tigers. Cleveland is fading and fading fast. I again go back to June 1st when the Twins were 16.5 games back. Cleveland was 13 games over .500 at 33-20, and a 5-game lead on Detroit. Now they're 47-42, and a 1/2 game out of first. While the Twins have gained 10 games in the standings over the last 40 days, the Indians are 14-22 in those same 40 days. Plus the Twins have continued their dominance of the White Sox, and are only 1.5 games behind Chicago, and still play the White Sox another 9 times in the second half of the season.

The Twins just completed a 4-game with Chicago in the middle of a span of 16 straight games against divisional opponents. The Twins have coming out of the All-Star break a 4-game series against Kansas City, a 4-game series against Cleveland, and a 4-game series against Detroit, all played in Minnesota. The final game of that stretch is on July 24th. So, the Twins will have a much better idea then if they're a contender in the division or not. Then they'll have a week before the deadline to decide if they're going to be buyers, sellers, or if they're just going to stay put.

Agree with everything you said. Twins should not be in a fire sale. And I think the tigers are the team to beat. The only guys I am suggesting they "sell" are guys like Young, Slowey, Span/Revere. I would not look to make any big acquisition, because even if they do stay in contention, they do not have the horses to do a thing in the play-offs. In my opinion, it is time to build some for the future.

And despite their run, they still have one of the worst records in baseball

 

[MNclone]

Im going to be perfectly content if the twins decide not to make any major moves prior to the deadline. We have been dedline buyers for the last few years which has led to a depleted farm system and a lot of first round playoff exits.
This team isnt going to be a World Series contender anyway, so lets go ahead and offload some of our extras and be done. Thats my vote. See ya Delmon and Slowey. Maybe even Thome. (Hate to say that because I love having him on the team)

 

[RING4CY]

No one is going to a farm prospect for someone like Thome. Buyers are going to be looking for everyday players.

 

[Iastfan112]

No one is going to a farm prospect for someone like Thome. Buyers are going to be looking for everyday players.

Everyone can use an extra bench bat with serious pop, so I'd say he definitely trade able but because he isn't a regular I would agree that the Twins would be unlikely to fetch anything more than a C/C+ prospect in the low minors.

 

[RING4CY]

Outside of some bullpen reconstruction, I just don't see what the Twins have for needs. They'll be getting a lot of new players after the break without having to make any trades when guys like Span, Kubel, and Young comeback. Kubel will give the Twins more options as who to start in the DH spot. Young, while he is the worst fielding outfielder in the majors, there's no denying how good his bat has been at times.

As for the bullpen, I think Joe Nathan is beginning to show he could possibly take over the closer role, with Glen Perkins possibly being the setup guy. The middle relievers are the majors concern. I don't know enough about the best middle guys around the majors that are on teams that maybe sellers to suggest exactly who I would like to see the Twins maybe make a move for.

So far in this thread, people have mentioned moving Morneau and Slowey. Let me pose this question, why and who would trade for guys that are currently injured and on the DL?

 

[jdoggivjc]

Agree with everything you said. Twins should not be in a fire sale. And I think the tigers are the team to beat. The only guys I am suggesting they "sell" are guys like Young, Slowey, Span/Revere. I would not look to make any big acquisition, because even if they do stay in contention, they do not have the horses to do a thing in the play-offs. In my opinion, it is time to build some for the future.

And despite their run, they still have one of the worst records in baseball

That's because, short of the Phillies, everyone is playing mediocre baseball this year.

 

[FDWxMan]

Outside of some bullpen reconstruction, I just don't see what the Twins have for needs. They'll be getting a lot of new players after the break without having to make any trades when guys like Span, Kubel, and Young comeback. Kubel will give the Twins more options as who to start in the DH spot. Young, while he is the worst fielding outfielder in the majors, there's no denying how good his bat has been at times.

As for the bullpen, I think Joe Nathan is beginning to show he could possibly take over the closer role, with Glen Perkins possibly being the setup guy. The middle relievers are the majors concern. I don't know enough about the best middle guys around the majors that are on teams that maybe sellers to suggest exactly who I would like to see the Twins maybe make a move for.

So far in this thread, people have mentioned moving Morneau and Slowey. Let me pose this question, why and who would trade for guys that are currently injured and on the DL?

Yeah Morneau is going nowhere until he has at least an entire, healthy year. I'd still be for keeping him anyway with only 2 more years left on current deal.

Assuming everyone is healthy, what would be wrong with Mauer playing 90-100ish games behind the plate and 50 at 1B, with Morneau 100 1B and 50 DH? Seems like a good way to save on Mauer, short a full position change, or at least a way to ease into it.

I wouldn't really object to Morneau taking full time DH duties either in the long run.

 

[Tpups21]

Trade Young, Slowey and another young pitching prospect like Bobby Lanigan or Pat Dean to the Royals for Soria.