MLB: Ricketts to make an announcement on the Chicago Cubs' future

[IcSyU]

Over paying for a closer is about the dumbest thing you can do. You can get solid relief for relatively cheap, better to spend the money on starting pitching.

I'm not worried about the closer spot. Even though Marmol hasn't been consistent, 1. He's got the stuff, I could stand to see him get another couple years to work it out, and 2. Closer is one of the LAST priorities on a team with needs like the Cubs have. A closer can serve as the final piece of the puzzle (see Brad Lidge for Philly in '08), but unless your team can GET to the closer with the lead, even Mariano wouldn't have much value.

No kidding. Spending money on a closer is incredibly wasteful. I bet Carpenter could be a solid closer for us next year and he won't cost more than the minimum.

You don't build a team for the regular season. You build a team for the playoffs. Closer is arguably the most important piece of the puzzle. How many teams win the World Series without an excellent closer? Last year, Brian Wilson was awesome. Rivera, Papelbon, Lidge, Soriano, K-Rod, etc. all come to mind.

Now, I won't say that's a bigger need than starting pitching, but if you have 3-4 solid starters, getting to the playoffs shouldn't be an issue. Winning those games however is. Your starters are going to give you 6-7 IP in a playoff game, then someone has to take over. Who do the Cubs have for that? Marmol isn't the answer.

 

[tm3308]

You don't build a team for the regular season. You build a team for the playoffs. Closer is arguably the most important piece of the puzzle. How many teams win the World Series without an excellent closer? Last year, Brian Wilson was awesome. Rivera, Papelbon, Lidge, Soriano, K-Rod, etc. all come to mind.

Now, I won't say that's a bigger need than starting pitching, but if you have 3-4 solid starters, getting to the playoffs shouldn't be an issue. Winning those games however is. Your starters are going to give you 6-7 IP in a playoff game, then someone has to take over. Who do the Cubs have for that? Marmol isn't the answer.

Like I said, the Cubs have too many more pressing needs. We need to be able to see the contenders with satellite imagery first. Closer comes near the bottom of our list of priorities right now.

1. Better starting pitching
2. Better, more consistent bats in the OF
3.Bullpen

 

[CyJack13]

You don't build a team for the regular season. You build a team for the playoffs. Closer is arguably the most important piece of the puzzle. How many teams win the World Series without an excellent closer? Last year, Brian Wilson was awesome. Rivera, Papelbon, Lidge, Soriano, K-Rod, etc. all come to mind.

Now, I won't say that's a bigger need than starting pitching, but if you have 3-4 solid starters, getting to the playoffs shouldn't be an issue. Winning those games however is. Your starters are going to give you 6-7 IP in a playoff game, then someone has to take over. Who do the Cubs have for that? Marmol isn't the answer.

And Lidge was also terrible for the Astros a few years before he was great in Philly. K-Rod came out of nowhere and was terrific for the Angels in the bullpen when they won the world series. You can find solid closers for cheap, over paying for Soriano, like the Yankees did, or Papelbon would be a very unwise move.

Edit: I see you're a Yankees fan, I assume you just keep telling yourself this because you're trying to justify the Soriano signing.

 

[kberyldial]

I think the Cubs are close to becoming a solid young team.
Soto has developed into a good defensive Catcher,Castillo should replace Hill soon.
I like Pena at first but Prince would look really good behind Castro.
Barney and Castro seem to be exactly what this franchise needed.
Ramirez has a year or two left, hopefully Vitters will work out
Soriano needs to go regardless of the contract. Campana could turn into a top notch leadoff hitter.
Byrd looks solid in Center until Jackson is ready
Colvin looks like a new player after being called back up.

The rotation has 2 parts Garza and Cashner.
Dempster can be a good middle of the rotation guy if they don't give him a long term contract.
Zambrano would be better off gone but I can't imagine not seeing him next year.
Wells isn't a big league starter, at best compete with Coleman for long relief/emergency starter.

The pen is solid with a bunch of young arms the only two guys unsigned for next season are Wood and Grabow. Wood is a must sign.

Hopefully they keep DeWitt and Baker for the bench and resign Johnson as a 4th Outfielder.

Signing a top of the rotation starter and a productive First Baseman could get them right back in the hunt in the Central.

LA-LA-LAND
Barney sucks
Castro is the next coming of... Ramirez - lazy and could care less about the team
DeWitt??? DOn't even know what to say here - Barney is beating him out at his natural position
Colvin is a back-up outfielder
Campana will somehow be traded for an aging neverwas
Ramirez - covered him
Pena will be gone
Byrd had his best year
Soriano is a free swinging lead off second baseman playing left and not very well
The pitching staff is old and sucks
Garza is the Ramirez of the pitching staff - lazy and doesn't care about the team
Zambrano is owed over $18 million and not even the Yankees would take him
The minor league system is bare. BARE!
Pujols is not coming to Chicago folks

Seems like a good core to start a major league team. Cubs fans are more delusional than Iowa fans. Hawkeye Cubs fans are a real special group.

 

[CyJack13]

LA-LA-LAND
Barney sucks
Castro is the next coming of... Ramirez - lazy and could care less about the team
DeWitt??? DOn't even know what to say here - Barney is beating him out at his natural position
Colvin is a back-up outfielder
Campana will somehow be traded for an aging neverwas
Ramirez - covered him
Pena will be gone
Byrd had his best year
Soriano is a free swinging lead off second baseman playing left and not very well
The pitching staff is old and sucks
Garza is the Ramirez of the pitching staff - lazy and doesn't care about the team
Zambrano is owed over $18 million and not even the Yankees would take him
The minor league system is bare. BARE!
Pujols is not coming to Chicago folks

Seems like a good core to start a major league team. Cubs fans are more delusional than Iowa fans. Hawkeye Cubs fans are a real special group.

So he'll be a top three guy at his position for the better part of a decade? Sign me up for that.

 

[FDWxMan]

You don't build a team for the regular season. You build a team for the playoffs. Closer is arguably the most important piece of the puzzle. How many teams win the World Series without an excellent closer? Last year, Brian Wilson was awesome. Rivera, Papelbon, Lidge, Soriano, K-Rod, etc. all come to mind.

Now, I won't say that's a bigger need than starting pitching, but if you have 3-4 solid starters, getting to the playoffs shouldn't be an issue. Winning those games however is. Your starters are going to give you 6-7 IP in a playoff game, then someone has to take over. Who do the Cubs have for that? Marmol isn't the answer.

For a team that has even a hint of a budget....closer/bp is a bad place to sink a ton of money.

I would say a true ace is more helpful in a short series (playoffs) than a closer. For the most part...relievers year-to-year are way too volatile to justify taking money away from somewhere else. Good relievers can be had on the cheap, just take good scouting.

Come on Yankees fan! The Twins have had Nathan, who during the 04-09 time frame has been right there at the front of the group just behind Rivera as far as closers go. And how has that worked out?

In the playoffs, you HAVE to be able to go toe-to-toe with top flight starters. A decent bench is always nice to. But a closer isn't going to win you anything. Preserve, yes, but if you can't shutdown and out score...a closer isn't bringing you back.

 

[cycloneworld]

Catcher - Soto, Castillo
1st Base - IF possible, Pujols, and if not then Pena
2nd Base - Barney, Baker
Shortstop -Castro
3rd Base - Vitters, Dewitt
Left Field - Campana
Right Field - Colvin
Center - Byrd, Jackson

So basically a combination of the I-Cubs and the AA-team? If that's the lineup, they Cubs terrible.

As someone else pointed out...the Cubs need pitching, pitching, pitching. The starters' ERA is terrible. The other thing is clutch hitting. Correct those two things and the Cubs are .500 or better and are fighting for the playoffs.

The Cubs are 3rd in the NL in batting average yet 8th in runs. And 15th in the NL (next to last) in ERA.

A few offensive pieces and some major pitching moves fixes this team.

 

[ICclone23]

LA-LA-LAND
Barney sucks
Castro is the next coming of... Ramirez - lazy and could care less about the team
DeWitt??? DOn't even know what to say here - Barney is beating him out at his natural position
Colvin is a back-up outfielder
Campana will somehow be traded for an aging neverwas
Ramirez - covered him
Pena will be gone
Byrd had his best year
Soriano is a free swinging lead off second baseman playing left and not very well
The pitching staff is old and sucks
Garza is the Ramirez of the pitching staff - lazy and doesn't care about the team
Zambrano is owed over $18 million and not even the Yankees would take him
The minor league system is bare. BARE!
Pujols is not coming to Chicago folks

Seems like a good core to start a major league team. Cubs fans are more delusional than Iowa fans. Hawkeye Cubs fans are a real special group.

Anyone who thinks Castro is not an absolute stud is delusional. He is going to lead the National League in hits and he is 21. He is also going to go .315 10HR and 20 SB. Give him 3 years to add some strength and he will be a beast. I just hope Cubs lock him up like the Rays did with Longoria, give him 8 Years $24 million now, skip his abitration years.

 

[enisthemenace]

So basically a combination of the I-Cubs and the AA-team? If that's the lineup, they Cubs terrible.

As someone else pointed out...the Cubs need pitching, pitching, pitching. The starters' ERA is terrible. The other thing is clutch hitting. Correct those two things and the Cubs are .500 or better and are fighting for the playoffs.

The Cubs are 3rd in the NL in batting average yet 8th in runs. And 15th in the NL (next to last) in ERA.

A few offensive pieces and some major pitching moves fixes this team.

Caveat...I have not read the entire thread. That said, Marmol has blown 8, yes 8, save chances. Until yesterday, the Cubs are over .500 if he converts 6 of those 8. For those who think just 2 blown saves is asking too much...how many does Joel Hanrahan have?

Hint...2.

 

[kberyldial]

So he'll be a top three guy at his position for the better part of a decade? Sign me up for that.

Castro has played how many years in the majors? Yet you can pencil him in as one of the best SS for the next decade. Kinda like Corey Patterson? Mark Prior? Kerry Wood? Pie? Zambrano? Fukodome? It's laughable. Ramirez is a clock puncher and Castro looks an awful lot like him. When you fill your club with "people that just work here" then you have a bad team. Castro strikes out too much. Is the second worst fielding SS in the majors and his OBP is nearly the same as his batting average. What bothers me the most is that he has cloned himself after ARod. Watch his at bats and then watch ARod. Yuck! You can have him. He's not leading any team anywhere.

 

[gocubs2118]

Thanks, we'll keep him. He's only 21 years old and to say he's clock puncher like Ramirez is laughable. I bet he'll be a top 5 SS by the time he is 23.

 

[Clark]

How much ******* money do you think the Cubs have ?

You looked at those aquisitions and that was your first response?:smile:

What is this, 2006? Kazmir isn't even pitching in the majors right now he's so bad. Buerhle is at best a 4th starter right now.

I think they've got a shot at Wilson though if they want.

 

[Cyballz]

Caveat...I have not read the entire thread. That said, Marmol has blown 8, yes 8, save chances. Until yesterday, the Cubs are over .500 if he converts 6 of those 8. For those who think just 2 blown saves is asking too much...how many does Joel Hanrahan have?

Hint...2.

huh? The Cubs were 15 games under .500 before yesterday, how does Marmol blowing 6 less saves get them to .500? Maybe you took different math courses than I did.

 

[tm3308]

Castro has played how many years in the majors? Yet you can pencil him in as one of the best SS for the next decade. Kinda like Corey Patterson? Mark Prior? Kerry Wood? Pie? Zambrano? Fukodome? It's laughable. Ramirez is a clock puncher and Castro looks an awful lot like him. When you fill your club with "people that just work here" then you have a bad team. Castro strikes out too much. Is the second worst fielding SS in the majors and his OBP is nearly the same as his batting average. What bothers me the most is that he has cloned himself after ARod. Watch his at bats and then watch ARod. Yuck! You can have him. He's not leading any team anywhere.

Tulo struck out 130 times in his first full year. Castro has struck out 79 times this year, with 41 games to play. So he's not likely to reach Tulo's rookie total. And is there really anyone besides the Mets right now that wouldn't take Tulo in a heartbeat?

Derek Jeter had a 96.9% fielding percentage in his first full year, with 22 errors. Castro currently has a 96.5% fielding percentage. Yet Jeter has been considered one of the better defensive shortstops for the better part of a decade. Jeter also struck out 102 times in '96. Castro is on pace for 106.

 

[Boxerdaddy]

huh? The Cubs were 15 games under .500 before yesterday, how does Marmol blowing 6 less saves get them to .500? Maybe you took different math courses than I did.

well... 6 wins more wins... AND 6 less losses.

12 game swing. Gets close I guess I haven't looked at the numbers.

 

[cycloneworld]

huh? The Cubs were 15 games under .500 before yesterday, how does Marmol blowing 6 less saves get them to .500? Maybe you took different math courses than I did.

They were 13 under a few days ago. Add 6 wins, subtract 6 losses and that's a 12 game swing. That would put them 1 game under.

 

[tm3308]

well... 6 wins more wins... AND 6 less losses.

12 game swing. Gets close I guess I haven't looked at the numbers.

You can't quite look at it that way, I don't think. Remember, a blown save is not necessarily a loss. Marmol is 2-4. Closers don't usually get a decision unless they blow the save. So how many games in which Marmol blew the save did the Cubs eventually win? It's been at least a couple.

 

[chuckd4735]

huh? The Cubs were 15 games under .500 before yesterday, how does Marmol blowing 6 less saves get them to .500? Maybe you took different math courses than I did.

Its close. Take the number x2 as you would have to replace each loss with a win. So if they were 55-70, winning 6 of the games you lost would put you at 61-64.

 

[Boxerdaddy]

You can't quite look at it that way, I don't think. Remember, a blown save is not necessarily a loss. Marmol is 2-4. Closers don't usually get a decision unless they blow the save. So how many games in which Marmol blew the save did the Cubs eventually win? It's been at least a couple.

Gotcha..like i said i hadn't look at any of the stats and figured those 6 blown saves turned into losses.

 

[IcSyU]

Caveat...I have not read the entire thread. That said, Marmol has blown 8, yes 8, save chances. Until yesterday, the Cubs are over .500 if he converts 6 of those 8. For those who think just 2 blown saves is asking too much...how many does Joel Hanrahan have?

Hint...2.

Rivera has 5. Hanrahan > Rivera? :biglaugh: 2 blown saves at this time of year is a great year and asking WAY too much. 5-6 all year? I'd say that's pretty average for MLB closers. 8? That's far below average at this time of the year. The best closer in major league history averages about 4 per year (gets the save about 91% of the time over the last 10 years).

huh? The Cubs were 15 games under .500 before yesterday, how does Marmol blowing 6 less saves get them to .500? Maybe you took different math courses than I did.

Yeah...that's only a 12 game swing...not 15.