Question for Kansas fans (Basketball)

[ItsCyence]

I was on one of my yearly breaks from CF when the comments of Hoiberg's kid were going on. However, since I've kind of re-acclimated myself to the board, I have not really seen any rage inducing posts from twocoach. Maybe part of it is I am not tied to ISU in anyway besides fandom. I think he is a decent poster from another school's fan base.

 

[CyFan61]

I view our friend tuco with more curiosity than dislike. If I ever racked up 2,300+ posts on a website called "Jayhawk Fanatic" as a diehard Iowa State fan, I would want to reevaluate my life. I have no interest in that, and can't understand someone that does.

I wonder what his goal and purpose is on here when so many view him (rightly or wrongly) with strong disdain. There has to be an element of trolling that he revels in, just based on that fact alone and not on the content of his posts.

 

[CyTwins]

I expect both Alexander and Oubre to be starters and play to a 1st or 2nd team All Big 12 level. I worry about Big Cliff's defense and his stamina but he will be a bull on offense. If he can stay out of foul trouble he'll have a very good year and should eclipse Embiid's season averages from last year pretty easily.

Oubre is the guy I am most excited to see play. He has gotten rave reviews at every camp he's been to this summer and is another crazy long wing player that will be an excellent defender. I don't think he'll play as many minutes as Wiggins did last season since the rest of the team should be better overall on defense and because the drop off to Greene and Svi off the bench will not be as big as the drop off to Greene last year was. Self couldn't really take Wiggins out much last year because he was their only good perimeter defender and because Greene was king of lost in Year One.

I have no idea what to expect from Graham this year. He is the same age as Mason and Frankamp but with a year less college experience. He has better size for the position and better pure PG ability. There really is no combination of minutes spread between those three PGs that would surprise me. If we get anything productive out of him I'll be happy.

I have no expectations for Svi, either. He is rail thin and still only 17 years old so I would be surprised to see him average more than a few minutes a game. KU doesn't really need much from him with Oubre and Greene at that position. Maybe he'll see some minutes behind Selden at SG if he can play defense well enough. But I don't expect him to be an impact player at all next year.

I expect Hunter Mickelson to surprise a lot of people with his interior defense and rim protection. I think he'll be Cliff's primary back up at center and will block more shots on the season than Embiid did last year.

I expect Selden to take the role of leader on the team next year and be the attacking guard KU needs. He deferred to the experience of Tharpe and the talent of Wiggins last year. Look for that to change with both gone. He may not end up with the pure stats to be an All Big 12 1st/2nd team member but he will be one of the best overall players in the Big 12.

I expect Ellis to step up his game tremendously as well and also play to a 1st/2nd team All Big 12 level. He has been working hard on his outside shot and has also gotten quicker from what I have heard from summer camp reports. If he can make people play him outside and is quick enough to get around them if they overplay, he will be a tough cover and will open up the lane for Big Cliff to throw down some monster dunks.

For the team, I expect them to contend for the Big 12 title and to be a Top 2 seed in the tourney. How far they go is a crap shoot so dependent on other things that I have no more expectations than to get out of the first weekend. I do think they have enough talent and experience to make a deep run in the tourney. Hopefully the star align right and they play to their capabilities when it matters the most.

I think Alexander is going to be a beast but I'm on the fence with Oubre. Curious how Self will use him but the kid isn't afraid to put up shots. I could see him really progressing as the season goes on

 

[Cyclonesince78]

-Insisting bad calls didn't hurt ISU in Ames two years ago when the national media made a story out of it for a week and the B12 apologized for the blown calls.

-Thread going right now where he's saying Duke and UCLA aren't blue bloods but KU is.

-Multiple threads talking trash about Niang with Niang's mom.

-Bringing up completely unrelated KU recruiting topics in ISU recruiting threads (not talking about the kids we're both going after).

-Making fun of Hoiberg's kids crying. (100% lock Iowa trolls would never get away with that on the main basketball board)

Could go on.

For example:

[video=youtube;ajVWtCFfePU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajVWtCFfePU[/video]

 

[CarlHungus]

I think Alexander is going to be a beast but I'm on the fence with Oubre. Curious how Self will use him but the kid isn't afraid to put up shots. I could see him really progressing as the season goes on

Thank you for getting this thread back on track

 

[CRcyclone6]

For example:

[video=youtube;ajVWtCFfePU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajVWtCFfePU[/video]

Did you hear Wilbon? He listed all the blue bloods minus Indiana.

 

[twocoach]

Did you hear Wilbon? He listed all the blue bloods minus Indiana.

I think you meant to post this in the thread about Blue Blood programs. People around here hate when posters get off topic.

 

[twocoach]

Thank you for illustrating further, you're a troll because you can't see beyond KU perspective even slightly (like the entire national sports media and even the B12 office did in that particular case) and you post like a madman about KU whether it's a KU discussion or not.

Contrary to popular opinion, I am not stupid. And frankly, even a stupid person can understand most ISU fans perspective on that game. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp. I agree that the no call on Johnson should have been a charge; it pretty much HAD to be called either a block or a charge and most agree that a charge was the right call. I just don't happen to agree with the notion that there was only bad calls made in favor of Kansas and that only ISU was negatively affected by bad calls over the course of that game. ISU simply got stung by the LAST bad call of the game. I understand that an ISU fan would feel robbed by that. When people feel wronged they typically ignore anything that went their way to that point and focus their ire on what they see as an injustice. It's not rocket science.

 

[jsb]

Contrary to popular opinion, I am not stupid. And frankly, even a stupid person can understand most ISU fans perspective on that game. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp. I agree that the no call on Johnson should have been a charge; it pretty much HAD to be called either a block or a charge and most agree that a charge was the right call. I just don't happen to agree with the notion that there was only bad calls made in favor of Kansas and that only ISU was negatively affected by bad calls over the course of that game. ISU simply got stung by the LAST bad call of the game. I understand that an ISU fan would feel robbed by that. When people feel wronged they typically ignore anything that went their way to that point and focus their ire on what they see as an injustice. It's not rocket science.

If I were you, I would not argue this point on here. You will never get most Iowa State fans to agree with you. It was a foul on the ground AFTER the charge should have been called. That's what makes it so very, very bad. The officials were content to not call any foul until the scramble on the floor which was not even remotely a foul. It would have been easier for me to stomach HAD they called a block on the charge.

If you were not an idiot you would realize:

1. Of course bad calls happen to both teams during the entire game.

2. Bad calls do not always 'even' out. That is a myth that fans of schools like Kansas would like people to believe. You would realize this is a myth if you ever stopped to think about bad calls that cost Kansas a game.

3. The last call was not the only bad call down the stretch that went for Kansas. There was Withey's 5th foul that was given to some player who was not near the play and an entirely different race than Withey. There was also a horrible out of bounds play against Chris Babb.

4. AGAIN, WE ALL REALIZE THAT THERE ARE BAD CALLS THAT GO BOTH WAYS IN GAMES. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT IN THIS GAME THEY ALL WENT AGAINST IOWA STATE LATE IN THE GAME AND THAT IS WHY THE NATIONAL MEDIA (FRIEND OF KANSAS) GOT ALL UP IN ARMS OVER IT. They did not throw a fit because of 'normal' bad calls. They threw a fit over criminal (in the sports sense) bad calls.

You have plenty of people on here that think you are just a swell guy who is a basketball genius. But I'm not going to read some Kansas fan act like that game was anything but a hose job in the worst possible sense.

 

[CRcyclone6]

If I were you, I would not argue this point on here. You will never get most Iowa State fans to agree with you. It was a foul on the ground AFTER the charge should have been called. That's what makes it so very, very bad. The officials were content to not call any foul until the scramble on the floor which was not even remotely a foul. It would have been easier for me to stomach HAD they called a block on the charge.

If you were not an idiot you would realize:

1. Of course bad calls happen to both teams during the entire game.

2. Bad calls do not always 'even' out. That is a myth that fans of schools like Kansas would like people to believe. You would realize this is a myth if you ever stopped to think about bad calls that cost Kansas a game.

3. The last call was not the only bad call down the stretch that went for Kansas. There was Withey's 5th foul that was given to some player who was not near the play and an entirely different race than Withey. There was also a horrible out of bounds play against Chris Babb.

4. AGAIN, WE ALL REALIZE THAT THERE ARE BAD CALLS THAT GO BOTH WAYS IN GAMES. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT IN THIS GAME THEY ALL WENT AGAINST IOWA STATE LATE IN THE GAME AND THAT IS WHY THE NATIONAL MEDIA (FRIEND OF KANSAS) GOT ALL UP IN ARMS OVER IT. They did not throw a fit because of 'normal' bad calls. They threw a fit over criminal (in the sports sense) bad calls.

You have plenty of people on here that think you are just a swell guy who is a basketball genius. But I'm not going to read some Kansas fan act like that game was anything but a hose job in the worst possible sense.

Very well said.

 

[trajanJ]

I think Alexander is going to be a beast but I'm on the fence with Oubre. Curious how Self will use him but the kid isn't afraid to put up shots. I could see him really progressing as the season goes on

I'm the opposite. I'm on the fence with Alexander. I think he's physical enough to be a player but he lacks height and could really use a year under Hudy which means next year could be his big year. Oubre though could have a huge year. He surprised me with his play at James and Durant camps. His length is crazy and he can shoot. I think he ends up a one and done. KU should be better next year and so should ISU and Texas. Big 12 could be scary at the top.

 

[twocoach]

If I were you, I would not argue this point on here. You will never get most Iowa State fans to agree with you. It was a foul on the ground AFTER the charge should have been called. That's what makes it so very, very bad. The officials were content to not call any foul until the scramble on the floor which was not even remotely a foul. It would have been easier for me to stomach HAD they called a block on the charge.

If you were not an idiot you would realize:

1. Of course bad calls happen to both teams during the entire game.

2. Bad calls do not always 'even' out. That is a myth that fans of schools like Kansas would like people to believe. You would realize this is a myth if you ever stopped to think about bad calls that cost Kansas a game.

3. The last call was not the only bad call down the stretch that went for Kansas. There was Withey's 5th foul that was given to some player who was not near the play and an entirely different race than Withey. There was also a horrible out of bounds play against Chris Babb.

4. AGAIN, WE ALL REALIZE THAT THERE ARE BAD CALLS THAT GO BOTH WAYS IN GAMES. THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT IN THIS GAME THEY ALL WENT AGAINST IOWA STATE LATE IN THE GAME AND THAT IS WHY THE NATIONAL MEDIA (FRIEND OF KANSAS) GOT ALL UP IN ARMS OVER IT. They did not throw a fit because of 'normal' bad calls. They threw a fit over criminal (in the sports sense) bad calls.

You have plenty of people on here that think you are just a swell guy who is a basketball genius. But I'm not going to read some Kansas fan act like that game was anything but a hose job in the worst possible sense.

Thank you for making my point exactly. You have no recollection of any bad calls that went your way in that game, only memories of bad calls that went against you. Too bad that the 5th foul that should have gone to Withey should have only been his 4th foul after a terrible charge call on Withey that wiped a basket and and-one opportunity off the board and sent him to the bench 5 minutes into the 2nd half. KU was up 2 when he went to the bench and down 4 a few minutes later when he came back. A 6 point swing (not counting the 2 taken off the board and the free throw that a good percentage shooter like Withey likely would have made) without our best defender on the floor on a total BS call.

Did ISU ultimately lose a game they could have won? Yes. Did a call by the refs in the last few seconds of the game affect the outcome of the game? Yes. Did every call made over the entirety of the game affect the outcome? Yes. Do I think there was some giant conspiracy to screw ISU out of a win and give a win to KU (my definition of a "hose job"? No. If there was they would have just called the block in the first place.

Look, I am 100% sure I have had this same conversation with the same people on here over and over and over and over so this is the last time I'll touch on the topic. There is nothing more to add to the conversation.

 

[twocoach]

I'm the opposite. I'm on the fence with Alexander. I think he's physical enough to be a player but he lacks height and could really use a year under Hudy which means next year could be his big year. Oubre though could have a huge year. He surprised me with his play at James and Durant camps. His length is crazy and he can shoot. I think he ends up a one and done. KU should be better next year and so should ISU and Texas. Big 12 could be scary at the top.

Agreed. I think the Big 12 will have multiple teams with a legit shot at a Final Four run. I don't think they get 7 teams in the tourney like last year but the top end of the conference will be pretty amazing.

As for Alexander (or any other freshman really) no one will know until he gets out there. Embiid could have really used another year with Hudy but being a Top 5 pick is too tough to pass up and Alexander may find himself in that position, who knows.

 

[rholtgraves]

KU will be the favorite again and if they can stay healthy and can get consistent PG play they can be a final four team and championship contender.

Alexander is going to be very good but he has a tendency to commit fouls and his conditioning has improved. Oubre is very athletic and agressive but I see him coming off the bench. Sviatoslav is very skilled but he is young and not very strong. I don't expect him to contribute much but you never know bc he has a lot of talent.

I think the leaders of the team will be Ellis and Selden but the suprise if the year will be Greene. I think he will start and average double figures.

For some reason there are some KU fans who think a reserve player at Arkansas is going to all of the sudden be some stud post player. Not going to happen. He will probably split the back up center role with Lucas but will just be ok. In fact I can see him behind Lucas.

Self said he may play smaller at times this year and also mentioned using Selden how ISU used Kane. They won't have to rely on Freshman as heavily this year and I can see the team being a lot more balanced.

 

[rholtgraves]

I'm the opposite. I'm on the fence with Alexander. I think he's physical enough to be a player but he lacks height and could really use a year under Hudy which means next year could be his big year. Oubre though could have a huge year. He surprised me with his play at James and Durant camps. His length is crazy and he can shoot. I think he ends up a one and done. KU should be better next year and so should ISU and Texas. Big 12 could be scary at the top.

Alexander measures 6'8 this summer with a 7'3 wing span. He is fine lengthwise. This is a kid that has a great motor and great power and he will be their best freshman and top rebounder on the team.

 

[twocoach]

KU will be the favorite again and if they can stay healthy and can get consistent PG play they can be a final four team and championship contender. Alexander is going to be very good but he has a tendency to commit fouls and his conditioning has improved. Oubre is very athletic and agressive but I see him coming off the bench. Sviatoslav is very skilled but he is young and not very strong. I don't expect him to contribute much but you never know bc he has a lot of talent. I think the leaders of the team will be Ellis and Selden but the suprise if the year will be Greene. I think he will start and average double figures. For some reason there are some KU fans who think a reserve player at Arkansas is going to all of the sudden be some stud post player. Not going to happen. He will probably split the back up center role with Lucas but will just be ok. In fact I can see him behind Lucas. Self said he may play smaller at times this year and also mentioned using Selden how ISU used Kane. They won't have to rely on Freshman as heavily this year and I can see the team being a lot more balanced.

You think Greene starts over Oubre? Man, if Greene has improved enough to beat out Oubre that would mean KU will be very tough to beat. I don't think Mickelson will be a stud by any means, just a nice rim protector ioff the bench. He basically wasted a year playing in that goofball system that Mike Anderson runs. His freshman year he had just three less blocks than what Embiid produced last year and did it in 120 less minutes than what Embiid played last year. The kid is a pretty good shot blocker and is now a RS junior who spent all last year practicing in Self's system. I think he'll be ahead of Lucas even though Lucas will be decently productive in the minutes he sees the floor.

 

[PerryTheSilent]

You think Greene starts over Oubre? Man, if Greene has improved enough to beat out Oubre that would mean KU will be very tough to beat. I don't think Mickelson will be a stud by any means, just a nice rim protector ioff the bench. He basically wasted a year playing in that goofball system that Mike Anderson runs. His freshman year he had just three less blocks than what Embiid produced last year and did it in 120 less minutes than what Embiid played last year. The kid is a pretty good shot blocker and is now a RS junior who spent all last year practicing in Self's system. I think he'll be ahead of Lucas even though Lucas will be decently productive in the minutes he sees the floor.

Is it safe to say that Mickelson will be much improved? I think he will be a defensive presence we were missing last season off the bench that will give Cliff some much need breaks. The guy no one is talking about in this thread who could make a big time impact off the bench is Jamari Traylor. I think he will help us win some big games.

 

[twocoach]

Is it safe to say that Mickelson will be much improved? I think he will be a defensive presence we were missing last season off the bench that will give Cliff some much need breaks. The guy no one is talking about in this thread who could make a big time impact off the bench is Jamari Traylor. I think he will help us win some big games.

Traylor and Mickelson are both situational players. They will have good games against teams that they match up well against and are nice to have off the bench in case someone gets in foul trouble. I agree that there will be a game or two here and there where Traylor is the difference between a win and a loss. I feel very comfortable saying that Mcikelson will be much improved from the last time he played games because his last season was two years ago where he basically wasted a year playing in Mike Andersons's "40 minutes of fouling" system down at Arkansas. A system that has no real use for a legit low post center with shot blocking abilities. He spent all of last season banging down low against Embiid and Black in practice and I think he'll be a solid contributor off the bench. Traylor will probably see more minutes overall since he can play both the 4 and the 5 but their per 40 minute averages will probably be pretty comparable.