Pole building vs post frame

[st8cydr]

I'm building a garage on my property in a rural HOA. The HOA covenants say "in no circumstance shall the construction of a pole building be permissible." The covenants were written in the early 90's, when pole buildings were most often steel machine sheds. I would like to construct a post frame building with vinyl siding and asphalt shingles. Once completed, it would look like the other garages in the HOA. Is there any gray area in a pole building vs. a post frame for interpretation here? One reading (on the internet, so I've got that going for me) says that "post frame is a construction method, while a pole barn is just one result." Other online sources use the terms interchangeably. The difference in cost in concrete alone is significant. The developer who wrote the covenants is out of the picture, so I can't ask intent here-(structural vs. appearance). Trying to change the covenants is a no-go-the last time there was a modification it turned into a mess.

The frustrating thing for me is that garden sheds are allowed (or at least not prohibited).

Any construction guys or architects want to chime in?

 

[nfrine]

More than likely, an HOA has appearance and size issues with out-buildings. If you are really going for a traditional building appearance (siding and shingles), conventional construction is often the approach taken. The additional lumber and labor required to get this on a post frame approach often negates traditional post frame advantages. That said, there are some post frame firms that can do a neat job on appearance. NuMark out of Pella is one.

 

[ArgentCy]

HOA's.... Just bad news.

I would just try to run the plans across the petty tyrants to see if you can get approval. But it seems it will technically be against the rules unless they actually spelled out some details so you never know when trouble could arise.

 

[RLD4ISU]

I'm building a garage on my property in a rural HOA. The HOA covenants say "in no circumstance shall the construction of a pole building be permissible." The covenants were written in the early 90's, when pole buildings were most often steel machine sheds. I would like to construct a post frame building with vinyl siding and asphalt shingles. Once completed, it would look like the other garages in the HOA. Is there any gray area in a pole building vs. a post frame for interpretation here? One reading (on the internet, so I've got that going for me) says that "post frame is a construction method, while a pole barn is just one result." Other online sources use the terms interchangeably. The difference in cost in concrete alone is significant. The developer who wrote the covenants is out of the picture, so I can't ask intent here-(structural vs. appearance). Trying to change the covenants is a no-go-the last time there was a modification it turned into a mess.

The frustrating thing for me is that garden sheds are allowed (or at least not prohibited).

Any construction guys or architects want to chime in?

Is the HOA active? If so, couldn't they answer those questions?

Covenants (if not renewed or adopted by an HOA) usually expire 21 years after date of filing.

 

[CascadeClone]

Covenants are designed to prevent unsightly things that diminish home values for the people in the HOA. Garden sheds are usually allowed because they are small, so no impact.

Your best bet is to get a variance/allowance from the HOA. If the building is just a garage size and not some enormous machine shed, and looks good with similar roofing, siding, etc, I would think you could get approval. Make the argument no one would ever be able to know the difference from outside so it will impact property values positively, not negatively.

This assumes the HOA is reasonable and not just a bunch of a-hole busybodies... my old one was great, but have heard horror stories.

 

[BCClone]

Framed buildings will have footings. Pole barns use 4x6s vertically driven down to anchor. If you finish the inside, they will look fairly similar. I would ask the HOA first and explain what you want.

BTW, covenants have to be updated periodically or they expire. Check on that, maybe you can get it started before they find out.

 

[1100011CS]

More than likely, an HOA has appearance and size issues with out-buildings. If you are really going for a traditional building appearance (siding and shingles), conventional construction is often the approach taken. The additional lumber and labor required to get this on a post frame approach often negates traditional post frame advantages. That said, there are some post frame firms that can do a neat job on appearance. NuMark out of Pella is one.

Can you explain this please? It seem like there should be about the same amount of lumber and labor but without the additional concrete and labor for that.

 

[nfrine]

Can you explain this please? It seem like there should be about the same amount of lumber and labor but without the additional concrete and labor for that.

Traditional pole frame bulidings utilize a purlin type construction which is optimal for vertical steel siding. These purlins are usually 2" X 4" 's spaced a couple of feet on center. There is very little area to attach your traditional siding and shingles. If you want to use these materials, you need to provide the nailers. It can be done but it requires modifications to traditional pole frame construction methods.

 

[GrindingAway]

Traditional pole frame bulidings utilize a purlin type construction which is optimal for vertical steel siding. These purlins are usually 2" X 4" 's spaced a couple of feet on center. There is very little area to attach your traditional siding and shingles. If you want to use these materials, you need to provide the nailers. It can be done but it requires modifications to traditional pole frame construction methods.

I built a 30x40 building with pole frame construction about 10 years ago. Had similar HOA limitations that the OP is talking about, but nothing specifically against construction. Just had to be shingled and sided to match the house. At the time I priced it out and it was still cheaper to go pole frame, but the additional materials definitely closed the gap.

 

[nfrine]

Get the above, but still not following how there would be extra concrete.

The response was in reference to above ground construction mods.

Assuming both approaches have a concrete floor, the pole frame's "floating floor" should be thicker on the edges. The traditional construction would require footings that the pole frame wouldn't need to have.

 

[CTTB78]

The response was in reference to above ground construction mods.
Assuming both approaches have a concrete floor, the pole frame's "floating floor" should be thicker on the edges. The traditional
construction would require footings that the
pole frame wouldn't need to have.

Got it, thanks.

 

[ArgentCy]

Covenants are designed to prevent unsightly things that diminish home values for the people in the HOA. Garden sheds are usually allowed because they are small, so no impact.

Your best bet is to get a variance/allowance from the HOA. If the building is just a garage size and not some enormous machine shed, and looks good with similar roofing, siding, etc, I would think you could get approval. Make the argument no one would ever be able to know the difference from outside so it will impact property values positively, not negatively.

This assumes the HOA is reasonable and not just a bunch of a-hole busybodies... my old one was great, but have heard horror stories.

It's ironic because most of these people have no clue what leads to value. They just don't like some things and want a way to tell others what to do.

Pole Buildings or Shouse's have become really popular around here. They cost less to construct but they also sell better than stick built in many cases, odd but that appears to be true, at least here.

 

[ArgentCy]

Can you explain this please? It seem like there should be about the same amount of lumber and labor but without the additional concrete and labor for that.

Are you planning this as a garage with a gravel floor? I don't see why you would go to the trouble of adding the additional framing and exterior if it's just a gravel floored garage. I guess if that's the only thing allowed then you have to do but I think I'd just go stick built.

https://www.nfba.org/index.php/whats-post-frame

Maybe this view will help. Most of the Pole Buildings (technically post frame as no one uses poles) I see use about 8' on center poles. Steel is strong enough on it's own to put one section across. But vinyl does not have nearly that much strength so you'd have to add a bunch of lumber to the sides and probably roof.

 

[SCyclone]

In essence, a "pole building" is merely a type of "post frame" construction. This refers to the use of heavy timbers - sometimes round, more often square - that are either buried in the ground below the frostline, or anchored with heavy steel column bases into a piling of concrete (which is also below frostline).

Post framing developed from log cabin building, because it used less lumber and was somewhat less labor intensive. Plus the spaces in the framing allowed for better insulating methods. Eventually milled lumber came to be, and walls were framed using 2x4 and/or 2x6.

The method of construction doesn't preclude concealing those methods, both inside and out, with all types of finishes. Your HOA doesn't want a Morton building, basically.

 

[1100011CS]

Are you planning this as a garage with a gravel floor? I don't see why you would go to the trouble of adding the additional framing and exterior if it's just a gravel floored garage. I guess if that's the only thing allowed then you have to do but I think I'd just go stick built.

https://www.nfba.org/index.php/whats-post-frame

Maybe this view will help. Most of the Pole Buildings (technically post frame as no one uses poles) I see use about 8' on center poles. Steel is strong enough on it's own to put one section across. But vinyl does not have nearly that much strength so you'd have to add a bunch of lumber to the sides and probably roof.

I get that but it's no different than stick buildings and you don't have the additional cost of a foundation.

 

[ArgentCy]

I get that but it's no different than stick buildings and you don't have the additional cost of a foundation.

You can build a stick built house with no real foundation. It is different though, I mean that's why it's a separate building method.

 

[ArgentCy]

In essence, a "pole building" is merely a type of "post frame" construction. This refers to the use of heavy timbers - sometimes round, more often square - that are either buried in the ground below the frostline, or anchored with heavy steel column bases into a piling of concrete (which is also below frostline).

Post framing developed from log cabin building, because it used less lumber and was somewhat less labor intensive. Plus the spaces in the framing allowed for better insulating methods. Eventually milled lumber came to be, and walls were framed using 2x4 and/or 2x6.

The method of construction doesn't preclude concealing those methods, both inside and out, with all types of finishes. Your HOA doesn't want a Morton building, basically.

It all comes down to some people don't want the steel look, for some reason. Because in my area, that actually adds value. It lasts longer.

 

[WoodCy]

My suggestion would be to do stick built over post frame construction. Post frame is very expensive. If you have that kind of disposable income, then by all means use it. Your finished product will look exceptional.

The normal pole shed construction methods may work also but I would imagine your HOA is saying no due to building size and the appearance of corrugated steel. If you talk to any of the well known pole shed manufacturers, Morton, Cleary, Lester, Wick, etc, they should be able to engineer your pole shed to be the proper size and handle an asphalt roof and add sheathing to install siding.

 

[MeanDean]

My suggestion would be to do stick built over post frame construction. Post frame is very expensive. If you have that kind of disposable income, then by all means use it. Your finished product will look exceptional.

The normal pole shed construction methods may work also but I would imagine your HOA is saying no due to building size and the appearance of corrugated steel. If you talk to any of the well known pole shed manufacturers, Morton, Cleary, Lester, Wick, etc, they should be able to engineer your pole shed to be the proper size and handle an asphalt roof and add sheathing to install siding.

Yes, my brother worked with Cleary in the 90's to make his look like a stick built garage (40 x 26). He's not in a subdivision but because of the way his house was sited on the lot, the front of the building was closer to the roadway than the front of the house - so he needed to get a county zoning variance.

(He got the variance with only one person objecting. The former owner of the property , who still lived in the neighborhood, who had originally built the house too far back on the lot AND had stored his dilapidated RV on the property for years with a blue tarp over it. And yes, it was sitting closer to the road than the house, too.)