NCAA set to allow direct payments to athletes

[Kinch]

 

[Mr Janny]

Because if we don't, then we're not talking about the topic of this thread. I don't know if it's likely or not if a bill gets passed and I'm skeptical too, though a bit less than you. But if there is no law passed, it's obvious the clearinghouse will not work and nothing will change as it will all fall apart in the courts. So at that point, there's nothing to discuss.

That's just patently false. The title of the thread is the NCAA allowing direct payments to players. That isn't dependant on any law being passed. Schools could have done that any time they wanted to. No federal intervention needed.

 

[CloneJD]

The clearinghouse really isn’t the legal issue. The issue is whether the cap itself satisfies antitrust law. This district court judge clearly believes it does but we’ll see if other courts will in ancillary attacks.

 

[ClubCy]

The anti-trust exemption is related to enforcement of House and eligibility rules.

It won't exempt ESPN/SEC and Fox/B10 from control and manipulation of TV contracts that is costing AD programs and now athletes billions of dollars in TV revenues and resulting reductions in athlete RevShare/scholarship opportunities.

I hope you are right but have any original thoughts? You’ve been posting the same post for months with just different wording that sounds like a bot or copy paste from a Thamel article.

Yes, I know you’re going to call me a P2 boy or something.

 

[MountainManHawk]

It doesn’t really matter what construct- enforcement and abidement is only as good as the membership wants it to be. In this case, the P4 (really, the P2)

Just like the NCAA, the P2 isnt going to have the Clearinghouse limit their competitive advantages. NIL will be inconsistently enforced, picking on lower value schools that won’t fight back, and honest minor infractions- the easy wins giving a guise of enforcement

The Clearinghouse isn’t going after the Ohio State’s or the big TV brands. They may go after the Texas Tech and BYU types, further building a gap between the P2 and others

What are the non-P2 going to do about it? Complain to the Clearinghouse? Lol. We’re just hoping the P2 doesn’t lower our CFP and NCAA Tournament shares. Congress? Unlikely there’s much political capital gained from taking on the biggest brands.

That’s kind of what I envision as well. Schools like Oregon and Texas will never have a problem with the clearinghouse approving their NIL deals while non-bluebloods will always have to be worried about it.

And if they really want to be strict about it, isn’t the NIL value of an athlete generally lower in a small market than it would be in a major market like LA or Dallas? So if the clearinghouse says a car dealership can’t pay an athlete $X in a rural college town, could USC or UCLA sign that same kid for that same amount and say it’s inline with the market value in LA?

I’m imagining there are lots of comps available for athlete marketing deals in major markets and not so much in Corvallis or Provo, etc.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

That’s kind of what I envision as well. Schools like Oregon and Texas will never have a problem with the clearinghouse approving their NIL deals while non-bluebloods will always have to be worried about it.

And if they really want to be strict about it, isn’t the NIL value of an athlete generally lower in a small market than it would be in a major market like LA or Dallas? So if the clearinghouse says a car dealership can’t pay an athlete $X in a rural college town, could USC or UCLA sign that same kid for that same amount and say it’s inline with the market value in LA?

I’m imagining there are lots of comps available for athlete marketing deals in major markets and not so much in Corvallis or Provo, etc.

Tarkanian will forever be right...

'The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky, they're going to put Cleveland State on probation again'

Exactly what the Clearinghouse is going to do in a different way.

 

[cykadelic2]

I hope you are right but have any original thoughts? You’ve been posting the same post for months with just different wording that sounds like a bot or copy paste from a Thamel article.

Yes, I know you’re going to call me a P2 boy or something.

I was clearly responding and clarifying the quoted post Club Boy. If you continue to be childishly offended, then put me on ignore or go eff yourself.

 

[clone52]

Then Bob Brown just goes back to paying kids under the table and we're right back where we started.

That's what everyone wants, though, right? NIL ruined the NcAA I keep hearing. It was so much better 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago

 

[clone52]

The clearinghouse really isn’t the legal issue. The issue is whether the cap itself satisfies antitrust law. This district court judge clearly believes it does but we’ll see if other courts will in ancillary attacks.

Why would it not? It works for the NFL and NBA. Why would an NCAA cap not satisfy antitrust laws?

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Why would it not? It works for the NFL and NBA. Why would an NCAA cap not satisfy antitrust laws?

It's not collectively bargained.

 

[Mr Janny]

Why would it not? It works for the NFL and NBA. Why would an NCAA cap not satisfy antitrust laws?

Salary caps are generally a violation of anti trust laws. The reason that the NFL and NBA are able to have them is because they are collectively bargained with their respective players unions. Collective Bargaining bypasses antitrust laws. The NCAA doesn't have a CBA, and without an act of Congress, they don't have an antitrust exemption either.

 

[clone52]

I have fleshed out a few more Clearinghouse ideas.

Gary Green is a 5 star basketball recruit who commits to Iowa State and starts negotiating NIL deals. Here is a list of potential deals and how the Clearinghouse could handle them.

Hickory Park offers $250K for NIL limited to marketing in Story county which is voided if he is not playing BB in story county. REJECTED.

Hickory Park offers $10K for the same deal. ACCEPTED.

Hickory Park offers $50k, but the marketing would be Story and be regional. TV adds airing in Des Moines TV market but voided if he isn't on the ISU bb team - REJECTED, pay for play.

Hickory Park offers $50K and Gary has to be on a basketball team in the DSM TV market - ACCEPTED. If Gary left Iowa State and joined Drake BB, the contract is still valid.

Fareway offers Gary $250k but he has to play at Iowa State - REJECTED

Fareway offers Gary $250K for a regional advertising campaign, but would be valid if Gary went to any school Iowa, Minnesota, Omaha area or Kansas City area - ACCEPTED.

Fareway offers $10k for billboards in story county only and some meet and greets in Story. ACCEPTED.

Nike offers Gary $5M to be the face of a brand new shoe line with marketing across the globe but he has to play for Oregon. REJECTED

Nike offers $5M but so long as he is on a Division 1 BB team. ACCEPTED and would be valid if Gary transferred anywhere.

Nike offers $10K for a limited advertising campaign near the Oregon Campus as long as he was on the Oregon BB team. ACCEPTED

 

[clone52]

Salary caps are generally a violation of anti trust laws. The reason that the NFL and NBA are able to have them is because they are collectively bargained with their respective players unions. Collective Bargaining bypasses antitrust laws. The NCAA doesn't have a CBA, and without an act of Congress, they don't have an antitrust exemption either.

Good to know. Maybe the NCAA can collectively bargain too then. If the players don't like a deal, they go on strike. If the schools don't like a deal, they lock the players out.

 

[Mr Janny]

Good to know. Maybe the NCAA can collectively bargain too then. If the players don't like a deal, they go on strike. If the schools don't like a deal, they lock the players out.

There needs to be a labor organization for them to bargain with. A players union. That doesn't seem too likely at this point, or at least it's not imminent for a while. If Congress fails to act, the NCAA might push the union/CBA angle, but it's definitely not their first choice.

 

[CloneJD]

There needs to be a labor organization for them to bargain with. A players union. That doesn't seem too likely at this point, or at least it's not imminent for a while. If Congress fails to act, the NCAA might push the union/CBA angle, but it's definitely not their first choice.

Arguably the House settlement included enough current players that the courts will consider it to be collectively bargained. That will be the point of contention once it is challenged.

I believe the House settlement only runs for 10 years too. After that there would have to be some type of collective bargaining to keep the cap.

 

[cykadelic2]

Arguably the House settlement included enough current players that the courts will consider it to be collectively bargained. That will be the point of contention once it is challenged.

I believe the House settlement only runs for 10 years too. After that there would have to be some type of collective bargaining to keep the cap.

The majority of athletes don't want to be employees which is why they signed up for House. Same with the NCAA.

However, the ongoing Johnson vs NCAA case may dictate otherwise and force the hand of both athletes and the NCAA which would result in additional roster cuts, schollies eliminated and non-rev sports cut:

Johnson v. NCAA: Student-Athlete Employment Status in the Second Trump Administration | Insights | Venable LLP

www.venable.com

 

[Cyclonsin]

I have fleshed out a few more Clearinghouse ideas.

Gary Green is a 5 star basketball recruit who commits to Iowa State and starts negotiating NIL deals. Here is a list of potential deals and how the Clearinghouse could handle them.

Hickory Park offers $250K for NIL limited to marketing in Story county which is voided if he is not playing BB in story county. REJECTED.

Hickory Park offers $10K for the same deal. ACCEPTED.

Hickory Park offers $50k, but the marketing would be Story and be regional. TV adds airing in Des Moines TV market but voided if he isn't on the ISU bb team - REJECTED, pay for play.

Hickory Park offers $50K and Gary has to be on a basketball team in the DSM TV market - ACCEPTED. If Gary left Iowa State and joined Drake BB, the contract is still valid.

Fareway offers Gary $250k but he has to play at Iowa State - REJECTED

Fareway offers Gary $250K for a regional advertising campaign, but would be valid if Gary went to any school Iowa, Minnesota, Omaha area or Kansas City area - ACCEPTED.

Fareway offers $10k for billboards in story county only and some meet and greets in Story. ACCEPTED.

Nike offers Gary $5M to be the face of a brand new shoe line with marketing across the globe but he has to play for Oregon. REJECTED

Nike offers $5M but so long as he is on a Division 1 BB team. ACCEPTED and would be valid if Gary transferred anywhere.

Nike offers $10K for a limited advertising campaign near the Oregon Campus as long as he was on the Oregon BB team. ACCEPTED

It's super easy to get around this...

Sweet Caroline's offers Gary $250,000 and Gary has to sign autographs in person at the restaurant every other week during the school year.

Ames Ford Lincoln offers Gary $500,000 and a vehicle in exchange for driving the "Ames Ford" badged vehicle within their market on a regular basis.

Both of those scenarios would be perfectly reasonable parts of a marketing contract.

 

[cykadelic2]

It's super easy to get around this...

Sweet Caroline's offers Gary $250,000 and Gary has to sign autographs in person at the restaurant every other week during the school year.

Ames Ford Lincoln offers Gary $500,000 and a vehicle in exchange for driving the "Ames Ford" badged vehicle within their market on a regular basis.

Both of those scenarios would be perfectly reasonable parts of a marketing contract.

Yeah, they are reasonable parts of a marketing contract, the question would be whether or not the dollar amounts exceed the FMV threshold.

The Sweet Caroline's scenario might actually pass given the amount and services being provided but I doubt Ames F-L paying an athlete $500K to only drive a badged vehicle around Ames is going to cut it. Nobody will know who in the hell is driving the car.

 

[Cyclonsin]

Yeah, they are reasonable parts of a marketing contract, the question would be whether or not the dollar amounts exceed the FMV threshold.

The Sweet Caroline's scenario might actually pass given the amount and services being provided but I doubt Ames F-L paying an athlete $500K to only drive a badged vehicle around Ames is going to cut it. Nobody will know who in the hell is driving the car.

I just picked random dollar amounts, don't get caught up in those. I was trying to point out to @clone52 that businesses can really easily get around the restrictions he was discussing.

 

[clone52]

It's super easy to get around this...
A
Sweet Caroline's offers Gary $250,000 and Gary has to sign autographs in person at the restaurant every other week during the school year.

Ames Ford Lincoln offers Gary $500,000 and a vehicle in exchange for driving the "Ames Ford" badged vehicle within their market on a regular basis.

Both of those scenarios would be perfectly reasonable parts of a marketing contract.

If those are reasonable, then the Clearinghouse would approve them. But they would also be able to tell if they are reasonable? What has been Sweet Caroline's marketing budget typically? If they spend millions in marketing, then that's reasonable.

The NCAA can't stop companies from paying Gary, but they can rule Gary ineligible.