My issue with the last play
- Thread starter snowcraig2.0
- Start date
Give or take a year or two, I believe our previous two holders for something like the last 6 years have been a backup linebacker and a starting wide receiver. They didn't seem to suffer from a lack of practice time.
Your right. I don't know why I thought it was Bueker. Thanks for the reminder.
To me a walk on QB is the person to have hold the ball rather than the walk on punter but I'm sure the coaches have their reasons.
Where did you get this idea? From Austin saying we have practiced that play a thousand times? :skeptical: They have been practicing this play regularly for when they needed it just like several of the other gadget plays. The fact that they have practiced regularly tells me that they had confidence in Kuehl to make the throw. He didn't. It was the right call with the personnel that wouldn't tip off kNU.
Yes, I believe it is against the rules.
EDIT: From NCAA rulebook:
Players’ Numbering
ARTICLE 2.
e. Numbers shall not be changed during the game to deceive opponents
Flagrant offenders shall be disqualified [S47].
Another reason that NFL teams generally do not have the punter hold for kicks is that there are almost always only two kicking specialists on a squad. If the punter holds and your kicker goes down now you have to sub for the kicker (punter is backup kicker) and the holder.
[S27].
PENALTY—Live-ball foul. 15 yards from the previous spot [S27].
Flagrant offenders shall be disqualified [S47].
Another reason that NFL teams generally do not have the punter hold for kicks is that there are almost always only two kicking specialists on a squad. If the punter holds and your kicker goes down now you have to sub for the kicker (punter is backup kicker) and the holder.
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Throwing a pass in a game, even a high school game, is a little different than throwing in practice. How many passes has Kuehl thrown in a game until Saturday, any? We've got 8 qb's on the roster and even the walk ons were at least very good high school qb's who are good athletes and thrown hundreds of passes in game situations. Take one of them and make them a holder from the beginning of the season. They're qb's used to handling the ball and would also make good holders with practice. Then at least one of them, who would never see the field otherwise, will get in every game and be valuable as a holder as well as making something good happen on a fake or a bad snap.
How often have Kuehl and Mahoney run the option in a game? I'd guess never until they did so successfully earlier this season...
Most times the punter is the holder because during practice all of the quarterbacks and wide recievers and all other "skill" positions are off getting the team better. That being either getting first or second string snaps or running drills or running scout team. All of the skill people are usually busy 90-95% of practice.
So what does that leave us? Snappers, punters, and kickers. They don't have much to do during practice but work on the skills that will help out the team. It is only smart to have the 3 work together in getting timing down and work on skills.
I did a little research-
*In the NFL the punter is the starting holder on 30 of the 32 teams. The other 2 teams have quarterbacks.
*Of the teams that listed backups they were 3 quarterbacks, 1 wide receiver, 1 fullback, 1 kicker, 1 punter, 1 strong safety.
*In the Big 12 the starting holder was 3 punters, 3 quarterbacks, 2 wide receivers, 1 safety, and 3 were not listed.
*Of the teams that listed backups they were 3 wide receivers and 2 punters.
I do not have an issue with what happened in the game. It's just the way the ball bounces (or flutters
).I don't have a vote but if I did I'd vote for going with a back up qb as the holder, we've got 7 of them and I'd guess at least a couple would jump at the chance to participate in every game rather than ride the bench for their whole career, which most of them will. It very likely would have won the game for us, and that's why you use a good athlete in that situation that can run and throw well. It just makes more sense.
Better yet assign them the same number at the begining of the year. We have plenty of guys that have worn the same numbers.
Oops. I guess a majority of NFL teams DO have the punter hold
Most times the punter is the holder because during practice all of the quarterbacks and wide recievers and all other "skill" positions are off getting the team better. That being either getting first or second string snaps or running drills or running scout team. All of the skill people are usually busy 90-95% of practice.
So what does that leave us? Snappers, punters, and kickers. They don't have much to do during practice but work on the skills that will help out the team. It is only smart to have the 3 work together in getting timing down and work on skills.
I did a little research-
*In the NFL the punter is the starting holder on 30 of the 32 teams. The other 2 teams have quarterbacks.
*Of the teams that listed backups they were 3 quarterbacks, 1 wide receiver, 1 fullback, 1 kicker, 1 punter, 1 strong safety.
*In the Big 12 the starting holder was 3 punters, 3 quarterbacks, 2 wide receivers, 1 safety, and 3 were not listed.
*Of the teams that listed backups they were 3 wide receivers and 2 punters.
I do not have an issue with what happened in the game. It's just the way the ball bounces (or flutters
Good, I will gladly stand corrected. The point I was trying to refute that NFL teams almost always have the backup QB hold so ISU should do it too is thrown out the window as well.
I'm happy that the assertion that was made and I picked up and carried is wrong.
One other last thought.
Wonder if the play would have worked better if Mahoney would have run behind Kuehl, so they could do that "fake toss it over my head" play. The NU defense would have instinctively flowed the other direction, possibly leaving Franklin completely wide open.
Oh well.
Guys, remember that sometimes, even the punter would have experience at the QB position at the high school level. For example, MSU's punter Aaron Bates, who has a fake punt pass conversion and threw the winning TD against Notre Dame on their "Little Giants" play, had some experience at QB, I think.
I don't care if it's the punter, the backup QB, a receiver, what-have-you. But he should have 1) experience and skill handling long snaps and placing kicks, and 2) be able to either scramble for yards or throw for yards in case of a fake or blown hold.
I don't care if it's the punter, the backup QB, a receiver, what-have-you. But he should have 1) experience and skill handling long snaps and placing kicks, and 2) be able to either scramble for yards or throw for yards in case of a fake or blown hold.
Kuehl was a safety and a punter in high school. Maybe he was a back up QB. who knows. It doesn't really matter
Just for the record, I want the holder to be the guy that can catch and place the ball the best. Most people can throw a 5-10 yard pass and I have no doubt that 95% of the time Kuehl can as well. He has shown ability under pressure numerous times os I don't have an issue with the play.
I don't know if you are understanding my posts. I am agreeing with you. It was the right call with the right personnel.
