NBA: Jimmy Butler, it was me or Fred....
- Thread starter runbikeswim
- Start date
It's obvious that Jimmy and Fred are different personalities and the way Jimmy likes to be coached just isn't Fred. But I think his "it was Fred or Me" line was more in the eyes of the front office.
One thing I think is obvious from watching the Bulls this year vs the last couple is that they seam to have more team chemistry even though they have a worse team. They are playing pretty hard for Fred and running his system. I think once they actually have a healthy team later in the year they will not be nearly as bad as I thought. It will be interesting to see what they do with Mirotic. Sounds like he doesn't want anything to do with Portis and wants out as long as Portis is there. I would probably just trade him. In Markannen they have what they thought they were getting with Mirotic. He is kind of redundant now. Get a draft pick form him and keep building.
Honestly, I think Butler is toxic diva. He used to run his mouth about Thibs. He has run his mouth about his teammates. He thinks he is as big a deal as his friends, and he is not.
He's gone from averaging 24 points under Fred to 15 at Minnesota in the same amount of minutes.
One of the biggest downfalls of the NBA is how powerful the NBA has made their players. When players can dictate to owners and coaches, the system is out of whack.
He's gone from averaging 24 points under Fred to 15 at Minnesota in the same amount of minutes.
One of the biggest downfalls of the NBA is how powerful the NBA has made their players. When players can dictate to owners and coaches, the system is out of whack.
You clearly haven't watched more than a game of Minnesota this year, then. Jimmy Butler has been BY FAR the best player on Minnesota this year, solely because he is the most selfless person on the floor and the main reason they have won their first 5 game winning streak in 8 years or whatever. It is not even close. Basing his ability as a player solely off of his scoring isn't fair to him.
He is essentially doing a Lebron for that team in the fact that he is giving up shots he would have taken in Chicago (that Hoiberg was telling him to shoot) to get better looks, and make sure his teammates are feeling comfortable and in the flow of the game. Which is huge with a group of young stars who aren't sure how everything is going to mold together just yet. He is an extension of Thibs' philosophy to the point where Thibs' doesn't even have to say anything to the young guys any more because it has already been said by Butler.
And Jimmy didn't make the decision to leave Chicago, so I am not sure what your last paragraph is getting at.
Butler hasn't played well on the offensive end at all this year but it is early. It is clear to me the team is still trying to figure out how to play with each other. It is also a product of Thibs offense. Not exactly a modern offense.
No I don't watch Minnesota.
He averaged 5.5 assists last year, and 4 this year at MN, so your comment is not backed up by stats.
Furthermore, his 3 point % is down, as is his general shooting %.
What I am getting at is that Lebron can tell his office to bring in his friends and he does, players telling their coaches who to play, players telling management what coaches to hire, etc. Living here in Chicago, I was sick and tired of the Butler saga, constantly running his mouth to who ever would listen.
I don't care how good a player is on the court, if they are toxic in the locker-room, toxic towards their coach and fellow players in the media, they do more damage than good.
It's just like at work, the employees that bring down production/success are often the ones who run their mouths about management and their bosses and fellow co-workers, even if they are "hard workers."
Fred obviously knew exactly what the NBA life was like and went into this with his eyes wide open but you still have to wonder if he has his moments where he regrets the move (you know, because that's never been discussed here.)
Of course if he does, he can probably get over it with a quick swim...
Of course if he does, he can probably get over it with a quick swim...
Okay, well there we go. Ask any person who has watched the Timberwolves play a handful of games this season, and they will tell you Jimmy is the main cog in the machine making everything go for that team. Good passing doesn't always mean assists go up, the extra pass is contagious, and you can see it when it's clicking with this team. I'm not saying he is playing amazing offense and his stats are down due to usage, I am saying basing his effect solely on scoring is not fair to him.
I'm sorry that Jimmy had to play under GarPax , but Jimmy seems to be nothing but gelling with this locker room right now. So until I see anything to prove otherwise I will hold off from labeling him a "Toxic Diva" to this lockerroom.
I wouldn't go as far as to call him toxic. He was a really good player caught up in a bad situation. But while the Bulls ultimately chose to move him he did kind of force their hand by never even giving Fred Hoiberg a chance so it isn't like he's totally blameless in how it all went down.
Pretty similar to what happened with Paul George in Indiana. In both places the setup was doomed to fail because while PG and Butler are both doubtless top twenty NBA players (arguably top ten), IMO neither are quite good enough to be the best player on a championship team.
Pretty similar to what happened with Paul George in Indiana. In both places the setup was doomed to fail because while PG and Butler are both doubtless top twenty NBA players (arguably top ten), IMO neither are quite good enough to be the best player on a championship team.
If i remember right, Butler also didn't get along with Rose and Noah. he definitely rubs some people the wrong way.
I think Lauri's success so far, and how he continues going forward, will be huge in the perception of Fred at the end of the season. He seems perfect for Fred and I think most would agree with you. If Lavine can come back and give the team a bit of a lift, it could be a little less somber in Chicago by the end of the year.
The Timberwolves are on a 5 game winning streak so it's all good with Jimmy. Let's see how he reacts when they have the bump in the road. That's when I'll believe he's not the same Jimmy Butler he was in Chicago.
It's easy to be a great teammate when things are going well.
It's easy to be a great teammate when things are going well.
Sorry, I'm a very selfish and egotistical person. It's hard to even notice I am doing it, sometimes.
Do NBA teams have systems? Always looks like pick-up ball at the Y to me.
