Jamie Pollard preaches "Doomsday" about College Athletics and the NIL

[kirk89gt]

I really enjoyed the point where Jamie laid out all the benefits that college athletes received and compared it to professional sports with the exception that in the pros the athletes pick up the tab.

Perhaps this part of the model in the future or a possible work around where the athletes are paid but that is determined or offset by the benefits they receive and they pay the taxes on the value of those benefits just like the rest of us would.

That could serve to calm some of this Wild West stuff as all the benefits they currently have access to would add up to be quite a sum of money in the outside world.

 

[cyanide]

They will raise ticket prices. They need to sell beer.

 

[CascadeClone]

It also isn't comparable to business because sports is a zero sum game. Business is not.

I think its the exact opposite.

Sports isn't zero sum, because when you are good it brings attention and I get a share of that (in a normal sports league setup). Whereas in business when you are good that means I have my revenue reduced.

Now, CFB and MBB are currently anything but normal sports leagues at present, so I understand where you're coming from.

 

[Althetuna]

Call it whatever you'd like, an investment, a subsidy, etc. External funds flowing into the ISU athletics department needs to evaluated for ROI and compared to other opportunities.

I want ISU to be competitive at the highest level but not at the expense other more important priorities.

Of course what's deemed "important" is up for debate and lately, as a society, we've consistantly failed to come to a consensus on what we most value.

As such, I'm pessimistic that anything proactive will be enacted.

 

[CascadeClone]

There are fundamental issues in the 2 big college sports right now-
1. pay for play is 100% happening, but because we pretend it isn't, there are zero rules or regulations on it
2. a third of the competitors are actively trying to throw 2/3rds of the competitors entirely out of the sport, with the support of the folks actually paying the bills (ie TV money)

And #1 is enabling #2.

I have been saying for years that a Superleague of ~20-24 teams is what the TV/money people want. That's plenty of content for their outlets, with more control and less cost. I have seen nothing but acceleration towards this in the past 12 months. Hell look how the SEC suddenly isn't crap at basketball anymore.

Unless there is some kind of hail mary from government in the next ~12-24 months, setting up a CBA type agreement with serious rules around player recruitment, pay, retention, salary cap, etc - as well as actual penalties to prevent cheating... a Superleague is what we will get. And the other 40-50 programs will drop

 

[1SEIACLONE]

Either you didn’t watch the entire video or you only heard about 5% of what was actually said.

I only watched about 15 minutes of the video, could you summarize for us how ISU plans to make up for the money we are currently using emergency funds for in the future? Thanks.

 

[ZorkClone]

They will raise ticket prices. They need to sell beer.

I'm just going on lowest cost season ticket here:
Arizona: $110 +($50 competitive fee)= $160
ASU: $215
Baylor: $400 +($25 per seat donation) There are cheaper options here, but it's like half a section of seating or on a hill
BYU: $175
UCF: $99 +($76 donation per seat)= $175
Cincinnati : $225
Colorado: $250
Houston: $75 +($25 donation per seat) = $100 (lol)
ISU: $375
Kansas: $120 +($230 donation per seat)= $350
KSU: $200
OSU: $250 +($150 donation per seat)= $400
TCU: $280 + ($95 donation per seat) = $375
TTech: $210
Utah: $100 +($325 donation per seat)= $425
WVU: $380

I was doing this to see how ISU compared in price to the rest of the Big 12, but mostly I learned some teams have strange pricing structures that encourage "donations" over ticket price e.g. Utah and Kansas.

 

[Pope]

Elijah,

Congrats on an OUTSTANDING interview. You managed to get Jaime to explain in layman's terms what the essence of the challenge is for collegiate athletics. I've heard countless Jamie Pollard interviews, but none as informative as yours.

A big thanks to Jaime for being so transparent and patient enough to explain these issues to the fans. Iowa State is incredibly fortunate to have him driving our athletic department in this crazy crazy environment.

While it seems like everyone thinks they can podcast these days, it is apparent that you have real talent for this. I don't know what your career aspirations are, but you clearly are an effective communicator. Wish you the very best for whatever lies ahead.

 

[DSMCy]

I only watched about 15 minutes of the video, could you summarize for us how ISU plans to make up for the money we are currently using emergency funds for in the future? Thanks.

Ha I mean that's the crux of the entire video, no one currently has a solution

My take a way was that Pollard wants help from the State/Regents, or at least wants them and the University to decide how important Cyclone Athletics are to Ames, Central Iowa, Iowa at large, etc

Pollard said there's a world in which we collectively decide ISU Athletics aren't worth the investment and they become UNI. He doesn't want that to happen, but it could

It's worth taking an hour to watch the full video

 

[brokenloginagain]

1,000s of lawyers and multiple years of negotiations over the last several decades has given us:

NFL - salary caps, small market teams can compete
NBA - sort of salary caps, can go over and pay a tax, teams can sign their own players to larger contracts vs players going elsewhere
MLB - no salary caps, small mkt teams along for the ride, big market teams pay 3x vs everyone else.

No idea if college athletics will ever get any of those 3 models.

 

[Cyhig]

Said it before, but worth repeating

Imagine if the NFL allowed players to be unrestricted free agents each year and each team can spend as much money as they want to pay players. That's the current landscape of college sports.

JP is right... something needs to change with NIL. If nothing changes, there will be an enormous gap between the "have" teams and the "have not" teams

My proposal for college sports:

Transfers: student athletes are allowed to transfer once for any reason with no penalty. Any subsequent transfer will result in sitting out one year. Exceptions: If a player needs to transfer to be closer to their family in the event of a family hardship or if their head coach leaves

NIL: Institute a "salary cap". Teams can spend $X amount per sport. How they decide to divide that up between their players is up to them. Student athletes can still be compensated for their Name, Image, Likeness, but funds will be paid direct from the company (EA Sports, for example).

Idea is to create a more level playing field. Any changes to create a more competitive landscape would be a welcome change.

 

[CYdTracked]

I'm only about 30+ mins into this interview as I type this but Jamie has talked about some mind-boggling situations and numbers so far about where we are at now with the NIL/pay for play environment. The adding student fees like VT is doing to generate the $20 mil figure is just flat out sick. You are forcing a kid paying his/her own way to attend that school an additional fee just so they can pay an athlete that already is getting a full ride to attend a million dollars. That is just flat out wrong and essentially prioritizing athletics over academics.

The number of programs that are operating in debt is just sad too. The intent for what NIL was meant to be to what is actually has turned into which is pay for play is a mess. Some kind of reform to how this is going to work is going to be necessary at some point. It's going to eventually price the average fan out of attending games if you increase ticket prices to pay for it and athletic departments can't continue to operate in the red either. Cutting sports should not be a solution either, the athletes that participate in non-revenue generation sports deserve to have a program and opportunity at the college level too. What are we exactly accomplishing by lining the pockets of FB and MBB players that many might never make a career out of the sport past college and the ones that do usually have a nice payday coming being a pro athlete.

I don't have all the answers but Jamie is spot on that this is not sustainable as it currently is.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I'm only about 30+ mins into this interview as I type this but Jamie has talked about some mind-boggling situations and numbers so far about where we are at now with the NIL/pay for play environment. The adding student fees like VT is doing to generate the $20 mil figure is just flat out sick. You are forcing a kid paying his/her own way to attend that school an additional fee just so they can pay an athlete that already is getting a full ride to attend a million dollars. That is just flat out wrong and essentially prioritizing athletics over academics.

The number of programs that are operating in debt is just sad too. The intent for what NIL was meant to be to what is actually has turned into which is pay for play is a mess. Some kind of reform to how this is going to work is going to be necessary at some point. It's going to eventually price the average fan out of attending games if you increase ticket prices to pay for it and athletic departments can't continue to operate in the red either. Cutting sports should not be a solution either, the athletes that participate in non-revenue generation sports deserve to have a program and opportunity at the college level too. What are we exactly accomplishing by lining the pockets of FB and MBB players that many might never make a career out of the sport past college and the ones that do usually have a nice payday coming being a pro athlete.

I don't have all the answers but Jamie is spot on that this is not sustainable as it currently is.

The other thing we're doing is setting these kids up to be failures as young adults.

The vast majority that don't play professionally, are going to go from making six figures with absolutely no expenses and other benefits being handed to them to making $50k in their first job with the expenses that the rest of us have. Welcome to a huge culture shock that no one has done anything to prepare you for.

 

[DSMCy]

I'm only about 30+ mins into this interview as I type this but Jamie has talked about some mind-boggling situations and numbers so far about where we are at now with the NIL/pay for play environment. The adding student fees like VT is doing to generate the $20 mil figure is just flat out sick. You are forcing a kid paying his/her own way to attend that school an additional fee just so they can pay an athlete that already is getting a full ride to attend a million dollars. That is just flat out wrong and essentially prioritizing athletics over academics.

The number of programs that are operating in debt is just sad too. The intent for what NIL was meant to be to what is actually has turned into which is pay for play is a mess. Some kind of reform to how this is going to work is going to be necessary at some point. It's going to eventually price the average fan out of attending games if you increase ticket prices to pay for it and athletic departments can't continue to operate in the red either. Cutting sports should not be a solution either, the athletes that participate in non-revenue generation sports deserve to have a program and opportunity at the college level too. What are we exactly accomplishing by lining the pockets of FB and MBB players that many might never make a career out of the sport past college and the ones that do usually have a nice payday coming being a pro athlete.

I don't have all the answers but Jamie is spot on that this is not sustainable as it currently is.

There are absolutely going to be some Athletic Departments that get severely in debt or that take so much from their University, that they take the entire University down with them.
I feel like Pollard hinted at it, but I'm thinking we're going to start seeing a lot (like hundreds) of programs drop to FCS or D2 over the next 10 years because their University can't afford to subsidize Athletics any longer

 

[LincolnSwinger]

1,000s of lawyers and multiple years of negotiations over the last several decades has given us:

NFL - salary caps, small market teams can compete
NBA - sort of salary caps, can go over and pay a tax, teams can sign their own players to larger contracts vs players going elsewhere
MLB - no salary caps, small mkt teams along for the ride, big market teams pay 3x vs everyone else.

No idea if college athletics will ever get any of those 3 models.

I might be the only one in the world who believes the "Tier 2" schools could adopt an NFL model and create a league (ex the big boys) that would be just as valuable to the members over the long term, if not more, than the MLB path we're currently traveling. Obviously it would have to be done in one fell swoop, and there's significant game theory/prisoner's dilemma risk to actually getting it over the finish line.

 

[CYdTracked]

The other thing we're doing is setting these kids up to be failures as young adults.

The vast majority that don't play professionally, are going to go from making six figures with absolutely no expenses and other benefits being handed to them to making $50k in their first job with the expenses that the rest of us have. Welcome to a huge culture shock that no one has done anything to prepare you for.

Already seeing these figures about how much NIL money some of these FB players made in NIL that are going to make less in the NFL now. That right that right there is crazy that they essentially are "worth" more to some to play in college than they are going to be in the NFL. That means the NIL market is not in line with what they really are worth IMO. And that doesn't even count for all the "free" stuff they get that the pros still have to pay for like their scholarship, food, housing, etc that the pros pay out of their own pocket.

 

[StPaulCyclone]

I'm just going on lowest cost season ticket here:
Arizona: $110 +($50 competitive fee)= $160
ASU: $215
Baylor: $400 +($25 per seat donation) There are cheaper options here, but it's like half a section of seating or on a hill
BYU: $175
UCF: $99 +($76 donation per seat)= $175
Cincinnati : $225
Colorado: $250
Houston: $75 +($25 donation per seat) = $100 (lol)
ISU: $375
Kansas: $120 +($230 donation per seat)= $350
KSU: $200
OSU: $250 +($150 donation per seat)= $400
TCU: $280 + ($95 donation per seat) = $375
TTech: $210
Utah: $100 +($325 donation per seat)= $425
WVU: $380

I was doing this to see how ISU compared in price to the rest of the Big 12, but mostly I learned some teams have strange pricing structures that encourage "donations" over ticket price e.g. Utah and Kansas.

Is this apples to apples? Mobile Pass season tickets were our cheapest ST option and they used to be $99, IIRC.

 

[ElijahMoore]

Elijah,

Congrats on an OUTSTANDING interview. You managed to get Jaime to explain in layman's terms what the essence of the challenge is for collegiate athletics. I've heard countless Jamie Pollard interviews, but none as informative as yours.

A big thanks to Jaime for being so transparent and patient enough to explain these issues to the fans. Iowa State is incredibly fortunate to have him driving our athletic department in this crazy crazy environment.

While it seems like everyone thinks they can podcast these days, it is apparent that you have real talent for this. I don't know what your career aspirations are, but you clearly are an effective communicator. Wish you the very best for whatever lies ahead.

Wow! Thank you so much i thought he was wonderful! I thought there was a fool conversation to be had here, so I went for it. I think everyone should hear this information, so I made sure to put on my A game. Thank you!

 

[Althetuna]

A couple of points.
1. Folks keep saying the current situation isnt sustainable. When, in actuality, it isn't sustainable for many programs but it is sustainable for some.

2. As for market value of players being out off line compared to the professional models, the numbers required to fill all the college positions is much greater than professional teams. Plus the pot of money is much greater. Team owners fund professional teams. Universities, states, and fans are contributing to the available funds to pay players. In my mind, higher demand and higher available capital would lead to higher wages.

Unfortunately, it appears the solution is to have fewer programs participating at the highest level.

 

[DesertClone1]

I'm just going on lowest cost season ticket here:
Arizona: $110 +($50 competitive fee)= $160
ASU: $215
Baylor: $400 +($25 per seat donation) There are cheaper options here, but it's like half a section of seating or on a hill
BYU: $175
UCF: $99 +($76 donation per seat)= $175
Cincinnati : $225
Colorado: $250
Houston: $75 +($25 donation per seat) = $100 (lol)
ISU: $375
Kansas: $120 +($230 donation per seat)= $350
KSU: $200
OSU: $250 +($150 donation per seat)= $400
TCU: $280 + ($95 donation per seat) = $375
TTech: $210
Utah: $100 +($325 donation per seat)= $425
WVU: $380

I was doing this to see how ISU compared in price to the rest of the Big 12, but mostly I learned some teams have strange pricing structures that encourage "donations" over ticket price e.g. Utah and Kansas.

That Houston number is INSANE