ISU the "54th" most talented team...

[jdoggivjc]

This entire thread is making my argument for me why I don't bother obsessing with recruiting, or even following it all that much, for that matter. Campbell has proven over the last five years he knows what he's doing with the talent he brings in, so why should I waste my time worrying about who is or isn't coming?

This isn't me talking down on people that do like to follow recruiting - more power to people here who like to track that kind of thing. It's just not for me.

 

[Randy Bobandy]

Seems about right, with all due respect.

 

[Klubber]

yes, i understand that. But no one frames it like that... it is just "this is the talent level at each of these schools"...


national media writers do this all the time and did this during the playoff ranking shows as well…. “ISU doesn’t have the same talent level”.. blah blah blah..

This writer even made the case that Oregon should be ranked ahead of ISU based on “talent”…. Yet we just crushed them… apparently only high school talent rankings matter but actual on field performance means nothing.

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"Gargantuan talent gap". When I read that, I just laughed. Seriously, anyone who watched this team at all last year saw that we have real talent. And if they were still unconvinced, then all the pre-season accolades for our players should've clued them in. This stuff used to piss me off. Now I just laugh at it. It's such lazy journalism.

 

[cyclonehomer]

Seems about right, with all due respect.

Ah, the old say "all due respect" means I can say whatever I want thing.

Gotta say. Wish you weren't tarnishing the legacy of the Trailer Park Boys and Mr. Lahey by posting garbage 24/7 in their name.

 

[Blandboy]

Obvious rhetorical question here...would you rather be ISU with the 54th average recruiting class, but top 10 performance, or a team like Texas, Florida State, or Michigan, with top 10 recruiting classes and performances well outside the top 10?

Shrug off the perceived slight and enjoy to ride!

Five-star culture!

 

[Blandboy]

Seems about right, with all due respect.

hmmm...me thinks you are a troll, but your post indicates you're a "member". Tool seems like a more apt title.

 

[Frak]

I'm not going to bag on recruiting services too much. Everyone is wrong sometimes and if any of these guys were elite talent scouters, they'd be making $1M working for a staff and not $50k working for Rivals or 247. My issue is the lazy take that these recruiting rankings need to follow a kid around through his whole football career. It's obvious that ISU has some talent. Rose and Kolar and Hall could start for any team in the country. And we have multiple other kids that would start for 90%+. Just admit you were wrong on some of them. Instead, they just fall back on those HS rankings and assume that if you're a 3 star, you are not any good.

 

[t-noah]

ISU is the "54th most talented team" based on 247sports... Oregon is now #9.

"No. 54 Iowa State: The Cyclones rank behind programs like Illinois, UCF and Oregon State in these rankings. Yet Iowa State came a possession away from the 2020 Big 12 title and won a Fiesta Bowl. Nobody is doing more with less than Matt Campbell."

They can't just say "our rankings got it wrong"... it's ISU is "doing more with less"... meanwhile..

Mike Rose 3 star by 247, pre-season all american (started since day 1, was freshman all american as well)
Greg Eisworth 3 star by 247, pre-season all american
Charlie Kolar 3 star by 247, pre-season all american
Will McDonald 3 star by 247, led the country in sacks last year...

This is not the "54th most talented team", they are not "doing more with less talent". Campbell and Co. are finding the talent overlooked by others by out working them.

Examining the 2021 Team Talent Composite: The rich get richer

Alabama has its most talented roster ever, while Georgia and Ohio State are nipping on their heels.

247sports.com

We will likely have to prove ourselves every year. I guess their rankings and metrics on talent is the gold standard, but not the only standard. Campbell and the current ISU culture is producing talent and results.

We should not be surprised. We have always been the underdogs. I'm OK with that, for now. It's gonna be a great season and we will find out again where we stack up. GO CYCLONES!

 

[tolfbfan]

If CMC was able to land blue blood type classes [top 10], ISU would win many games on talent level alone and be in contention yearly for national championships due to player development and coaching.

 

[cymonw1980]

If CMC was able to land blue blood type classes [top 10], ISU would win many games on talent level alone and be in contention yearly for national championships due to player development and coaching.

Agree... only thing I would say is that there is a significant gap between teams like Alabama/OSU/Clemson and most others... Even between these teams year to year there can be a couple of key guys that create enough of a gap that often games between them are not competitive.

Point being, I am not saying ISU has an "Alabama" roster. However, I also think their talent is closer to top 10-15 vs. 54... Rankings coming out of HS are not a true representation of a teams talent level... especially Campbell's classes. Mike Rose is a perfect example. He was a 3 star guy with one D1 offer. Started day one and was a freshmen all american... this is not a story of develop for 3 yrs and then break out. Yes he is an exception. Yes it takes many recruits a couple years to develop where other programs may have guys contribute yr1, gone by yr 3. I get it. But given CMC is in year 6 and has six "super seniors" the HS ranking is much less important... To say what talent level they have now you need to evaluate what these guys have done in college...

Matt Campbell's last class at Toledo (2015) was re-ranked by The Athletic - they go back and look at how players actually perform in college and re-rank them based on college performance rather than what an analyst thought of them in HS. Toledo's class was ranked #12 in the country.

Campbell & Co. out work others and find talent that others overlook. Again, I am not saying they have a bama/osu/clemson roster... but it's not illinois either. Would be surprised if they don't have 5+ draft picks out of the 2018 class... Lot's of promise in the more recent classes as well.

 

[ILikeBacon]

They play with tense to push their article. It does reference how they were ranked, but then they also say "nobody does more with less" implying the present situation.

The article is just more click-bait. Saying we are the 54th most talented team now based on their high school rankings is like saying Ryan Leaf was the most talented quarterback in the NFL two years after he was drafted #1.

Brilliant observation!! You should get paid for that observation. If ok with you, I think I'll use that quote from time to time.

 

[RustShack]

There’s some pretty dang good NFL players who were 2-3* players as well.

 

[AuH2O]

There’s some pretty dang good NFL players who were 2-3* players as well.

Right, and by the time they were Jrs and SRs they weren’t the 500th or whatever talented players in CFB. Lots of guys over or underperform their talent. Plenty of teams over or underperform their collective talent. But a low 3 star guy that ends up as an All American and gets drafted was simply a ratings miss.
Recruiting rankings certainly matter. But guys get bumps based on who is recruiting them. So if a blue blood mis-evaluates a guy chances are he also ends up way too highly ranked.
Campbell and our staff certainly do a great job developing guys, but I’d say more than that they are simply better than everybody else at evaluating talent. Montgomery, Rose, McDonald, Kolar were early impact guys that bigger name schools were either late on or missed altogether.

 

[cyclone1209]

yes, i understand that. But no one frames it like that... it is just "this is the talent level at each of these schools"...


national media writers do this all the time and did this during the playoff ranking shows as well…. “ISU doesn’t have the same talent level”.. blah blah blah..

This writer even made the case that Oregon should be ranked ahead of ISU based on “talent”…. Yet we just crushed them… apparently only high school talent rankings matter but actual on field performance means nothing.

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Chip Patterson is an absolute shill for the SEC. Has a podcast called the cover 3 college football podcast or something.

I tried listening last year twice but once I heard it was 94% SEC, 6% everyone else I dumped it. They suck.

 

[Frak]

Agree... only thing I would say is that there is a significant gap between teams like Alabama/OSU/Clemson and most others... Even between these teams year to year there can be a couple of key guys that create enough of a gap that often games between them are not competitive.

Point being, I am not saying ISU has an "Alabama" roster. However, I also think their talent is closer to top 10-15 vs. 54... Rankings coming out of HS are not a true representation of a teams talent level... especially Campbell's classes. Mike Rose is a perfect example. He was a 3 star guy with one D1 offer. Started day one and was a freshmen all american... this is not a story of develop for 3 yrs and then break out. Yes he is an exception. Yes it takes many recruits a couple years to develop where other programs may have guys contribute yr1, gone by yr 3. I get it. But given CMC is in year 6 and has six "super seniors" the HS ranking is much less important... To say what talent level they have now you need to evaluate what these guys have done in college...

Matt Campbell's last class at Toledo (2015) was re-ranked by The Athletic - they go back and look at how players actually perform in college and re-rank them based on college performance rather than what an analyst thought of them in HS. Toledo's class was ranked #12 in the country.

Campbell & Co. out work others and find talent that others overlook. Again, I am not saying they have a bama/osu/clemson roster... but it's not illinois either. Would be surprised if they don't have 5+ draft picks out of the 2018 class... Lot's of promise in the more recent classes as well.

Yeah, some people are saying that Campbell develops talent better than most. Maybe so, but the bigger part is evaluation. They didn't develop Mike Rose to be a starter Day 1. He was that good out of HS. The development has occurred since then has turned him from a TRFR starter to an AA. Montgomery, Deshaunte Jones, JaQuan Bailey, Eisworth, Purdy...these are guys that were 3 stars and good enough to play their first season. That's not development, that's seeing fit and talent that other staffs don't see.

 

[MisterO]

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I love this- don’t think for a minute that garbage like this isn’t prominently displayed somewhere in our facilities.

Keep underestimating us- we welcome the opportunity to have you dine on crow in 4 months.