Is this team tired? Does TJ need to ease up the rest of the way?

[clonehome]

We know how grueling TJ’s regimen is for his team starting with summer workouts. It’s allowed him to take patchwork teams to 3 straight tourneys including 2 Sweet 16s, with this year’s team ranked in the top 10 all season and seemingly poised to go even further. Unprecedented in the history of ISU basketball, by a ways.

But this team seems tired and starting to crack. Injuries and illness have crept in and there seems to be a lack of joy among the players. This is starting to feel like 2000-2001 which ended badly. I think TJ should back off, give his players some days off the rest of the way, shorten practices and let his guys return to having fun.

 

[AdRock4Cy]

TJ is obviously out of gas.

 

[madguy30]

This came up last year before they won the Big 12 tornament.

They didn't look tired Saturday. And there was plenty of energy in the 2nd half last night.

It came to valuing the ball and the group has been weird with that all season despite good numbers.

The first two TJ season fall outs were a mixture of an athletically limited roster getting caught up to and some weirdness with Grill throwing everything off.

This is also a more limited team than what's perceived but they are allergic to patience.

 

[CYBootros]

This always comes up after losing and always will at the end of the season. Its an easy excuse. Only interesting this excuse, that it is never mentioned when the team wins. I get its a long season November - February, we are almost 30 games in. 120 days with maybe 15 meaningful games with several breaks in there with November, December and holiday breaks. Kids play aau tournaments several games weekend after weekend. Being tired after the 5th game in two days makes sense. I think its more of a mental check out drain thing then anything. When you step on that court be mentally ready to go to battle to get that win. Mentally something has to switch when its game time and come out to dominate night in and night out. This late in the season, that game last night was concerning. I still believe in this team but not with that mentality last night.

 

[cycloneworld]

Other teams don’t seem to run out of gas so it’s logical to wonder why TJ’s teams continue to struggle in February and early March. But as long as this team turns it on in mid and late March, that’s all that really matters. If you aren’t going to win a conference title, nothing else really matters until March.

 

[madguy30]

Other teams don’t seem to run out of gas so it’s logical to wonder why TJ’s teams continue to struggle in February and early March. But as long as this team turns it on in mid and late March, that’s all that really matters. If you aren’t going to win a conference title, nothing else really matters until March.

They were 6-2 last February. 4-4 this year after 6-2 in January.

2-1 in March last year with a loss at a decent NIT-level KSU.

Had two bad Februarys the first two years but that was more of a talent issue and evidently Grill weighing things down.

 

[cyups2323]

This team has the highest ceiling of any iowa state steam in my lifetime but at the same time this team values the ball less than any iowa state team in my lifetime. Im afraid turn overs are gonna end up ruining our dream season.

 

[cycloneworld]

They were 6-2 last February. 4-4 this year after 6-2 in January.

2-1 in March last year with a loss at a decent NIT-level KSU.

Had two bad Februarys the first two years but that was more of a talent issue and evidently Grill weighing things down.

I believe they are 16-16 in February under TJ. Based on the teams he’s had, that’s not very good. People can justify it all they want (Grill, our 5th best player is hurt, etc), but facts are facts.

Like I said, if you aren’t going to win a conference title (we all thought this team could), then winning in March is all that really matters.

 

[madguy30]

I believe they are 16-16 in February under TJ. Based on the teams he’s had, that’s not very good. People can justify it all they want (Grill, our 5th best player is hurt, etc), but facts are facts.

Like I said, if you aren’t going to win a conference title (we all thought this team could), then winning in March is all that really matters.

'We' all thought that? So much has to go into that kind of thing, including a tourrey run.

Again, the first two teams were very limited and won largely from mucking the game up.

More athletic teams overwhelmed them and/or they just didn't have the offense.

I don't know why that gets ignored.

 

[NoCreativity]

The entire Big 12 is playing terrible right now except Houston and BYU. I really think a part of it is this ridiculous schedule. Hopefully they go back to 18 and have a bye week somewhere.

 

[Cyhig]

This came up last year before they won the Big 12 tornament.

They didn't look tired Saturday. And there was plenty of energy in the 2nd half last night.

It came to valuing the ball and the group has been weird with that all season despite good numbers.

The first two TJ season fall outs were a mixture of an athletically limited roster getting caught up to and some weirdness with Grill throwing everything off.

This is also a more limited term than what's perceived but they are allergic to patience.

Agreed. The team came out flat last night. It just seemed like they thought they could I show up and win. Focus to detail was not there for the first half. Many sloppy turnovers.

I reviewed the play by play and ISU had 7 turnovers in their first 10 possessions. That alone just illustrates the teams lack of focus entering the game

 

[Cyclonepride]

Agreed. The team came out flat last night. It just seemed like they thought they could I show up and win. Focus to detail was not there for the first half. Many sloppy turnovers.

I reviewed the play by play and ISU had 7 turnovers in their first 10 possessions. That alone just illustrates the teams lack of focus entering the game

Hangover from the effort expended at Houston, hangover from the final nail in the coffin for the goal of a Big 12 regular season title. Just tired from having a shorter rotation for most of the last month +. Then drop all that on top of a game that is easy to take lightly, and boom, crapfest of a game.

 

[madguy30]

The entire Big 12 is playing terrible right now except Houston and BYU. I really think a part of it is this ridiculous schedule. Hopefully they go back to 18 and have a bye week somewhere.

Anyone know the general record of teams traveling across the country for basically a week to play two games in any of the conferences that do so?

I know road games are hard to win anyway but it seems really lopsided.

That doesn't excuse last night. ISU just can't figure simple things out.

 

[CYdTracked]

Last night was sad after we played Houston so tough down our 2 top scorers. Feels like we start to press and force things when we get off to slow starts which leads to a bunch of turnovers. FT shooting also bit us. A look at recent losses:

OSU: 18 turnovers lead to 24 points for OSU. Shot 12-20 from FT
Houston: turnovers not as bad, 11 for 16 points. we forced 17 but only matched them with 16 points. FT were good, we shot 15-17 to their 8-10. Just did not shoot well overall at .391
KU: we were never in this game, surprised we only had 7 turnovers but shot just .306 from the field and 11-20 from FT while KU was 8-11.
KSU: this was our worst loss until last night. 18 turnovers led to 26 points and shot just .365 from the field
Arizona: This is where things kind of started the rough stretch. Yes a lucky heave at the buzzer to send it to OT that stole a win from us but the stats are telling, 18 turnovers for 22 points and 12-18 FT shooting.

Not sure why this team does not value the basketball more, the turnovers have become a big problem and a lot of them are unforced at times with lazy passes or driving the lane out of control at times. Don't recall us having such an issue with turnovers as we have lately. We clean that up and a lot of our problems go away. These last 3 games are big ones for not only Big 12 seeding but NCAA seeding as well. We probably lost our NCAA 2 seed last night and will need to finish strong and probably win the Big 12 tournament to get that back. If we lose 2 or 3 of these last 3 games it's going to put us in a tight spot for Big 12 seeding too. Currently tied with BYU for the 4 seed and we play them next week. WVU Baylor and KSU are all sitting with 3 losses less than us but likely will each lose at least 1 game although of those KSU has 3 games against 3 of the worst teams in the conference then finish the season against us. If we win all 3 games we have an outside shot at the 2 seed in the Big 12. AZ has Utah, us, ASU and KU so they could lose 2 of those and be tied with us at 6 losses. TT is @KU CU @ASU so 1 loss puts them tied with us with 6 losses and we have the head to head tie breaker. If we lose 1 more game that ties us with KU at 7 losses but they have 3 tough games with TT @Hou AZ so I'd be suprised if they win all 3. So best case for us is 2 seed in Big 12 tournament but we'd have to win all 3 of our remaining games and get a little help. If we lose 1 more we probably top out at the 3 or 4 seed but more likely be the 4 or 5 seed. If we lose 2 or 3 then things will get rather interesting depending on how the rest of the league plays out. I think our floor is the 6 seed as I don't think any of the teams with 9 losses win out but if 1 were to it would probably be KSU.

 

[Clonefan32]

This came up last year before they won the Big 12 tornament.

They didn't look tired Saturday. And there was plenty of energy in the 2nd half last night.

It came to valuing the ball and the group has been weird with that all season despite good numbers.

The first two TJ season fall outs were a mixture of an athletically limited roster getting caught up to and some weirdness with Grill throwing everything off.

This is also a more limited team than what's perceived but they are allergic to patience.

I would totally disagree. They have all the hallmarks of a tired basketball team. They got toasted in transition several times last night. Their jumpshots are coming up short. They are getting beat on the glass. I think it's somewhat easy to have some extra energy @ Houston just because of the atmosphere.

I just think about what Keshon, Curt and Tamin looked like early in the year compared to now. I know Curt has been sick, but he hasn't been himself for a month. They just aren't the same players right now and you can tell it's tired legs.

 

[madguy30]

I would totally disagree. They have all the hallmarks of a tired basketball team. They got toasted in transition several times last night. Their jumpshots are coming up short. They are getting beat on the glass. I think it's somewhat easy to have some extra energy @ Houston just because of the atmosphere.

I just think about what Keshon, Curt and Tamin looked like early in the year compared to now. I know Curt has been sick, but he hasn't been himself for a month. They just aren't the same players right now and you can tell it's tired legs.

So again what was the excuse for a limited roster to show out and play with lots of energy this past Saturday?

And how Houston played isn't relevant; ISU played with a lot of energy, no?

If they come out and put it together Saturday are they still tired? Final Four back in the mix because it should just happen?

 

[Jdk]

This team has trouble making 2 free throws in a row

 

[NorthCyd]

TJ's teams won the Big XII tournament last year and made it to the second weekend in the NCAA 2 times in 3 years, and yet everyone is convinced his teams are burned out at the end of the season. Good teams take bad losses all the time in basketball. It happens.

 

[NorthCyd]

This team has trouble making 2 free throws in a row

ISU is a well above average free throw shooting team. They shoot 75% (86th in the country), which statistically means they hit both free throws over 50% of the time. You know there are numbers you can look up for these things before posting something that is just flat out wrong.

 

[spierceisu]

What makes me think the team is tired is how their shots looked last night. A lot of shots were way short and some seemed to barely make it to the rim. I can't figure out why the schedule is so compact for the conference. In the first 3 weeks of the year we only had 3 games and then when it comes to the conference season it is 2 games a week without even a one game break. I think they need to start the conference games a week or 2 sooner like the Big 10 or others do and have a few games off sprinkled in. It is such a grind especially when having back to back road games. I think I heard we flew back and then had to be right back on a plane to get to Stillwater. It would make me tired without even playing.