How should the Big 12 play the hand it has been dealt

[BCClone]

Wondering what peoples’ thoughts are on an idea I had. (Not sure if it’s been thrown out elsewhere, but hadn’t seen it).

The idea is to do a full merger with the PAC 12; add 2 teams to get to 24. Then break the conference up into two divisions (Big 12; PAC 12). The divisions serve two purposes; 1. To continue the nostalgia of the old conferences, which is still important to many, 2. It will serve as a means to set up a 4 team conference championship playoff.

Teams will be set up in pods of 4. The pod system would work the same as the 16 team conferences except you would play pods in your division every year and then rotate one pod in the other division each year or two.

All of those games count as a conference game (9 conference games each). At the end of the regular season the conference would hold a 4 team playoff. The 1st and 2nd teams in each division play first, then the winners play for the overall conference championship.

Depending on what happens with the other conferences, games can be added if non-conference games become an issue. For instance, pods of three would get you to 11 conference games easily.

I image a system like this would be very appealing to a media partner. All the abandoned schools stick together and creat something equally as appealing as the 16 team conferences out east.

Thoughts?

Or we can grab 4-6 and have something more appealing than our east. If we merge, we don’t create a lot of added value for the big XII, it would basically be an alliance and we know how well they work. You take four and the R8 can stick together and have some control of the situation.

 

[Urbandale2013]

If you make the strong push to get the 4 on board it puts pressure on Washington and Oregon to come along too. They aren’t going to want to sit and hope for the Big 10 invitation if they don’t even have a status quo conference.

If you try and just get Washington and Oregon it leaves them with just staying at 10 for now.

 

[BCClone]

If you make the strong push to get the 4 on board it puts pressure on Washington and Oregon to come along too. They aren’t going to want to sit and hope for the Big 10 invitation if they don’t even have a status quo conference.

If you try and just get Washington and Oregon it leaves them with just staying at 10 for now.

Oregon could try a ND thing where they try to place everything but football in a conference and go independent in FB. Phil will carry them.

 

[jl112481]

Or we can grab 4-6 and have something more appealing than our east. If we merge, we don’t create a lot of added value for the big XII, it would basically be an alliance and we know how well they work. You take four and the R8 can stick together and have some control of the situation.

In my scenario the two conferences would merge to create one conference, not an Alliance. The divisions would be within the conference, but the 24 teams would be locked into the conference as a whole.

 

[BCClone]

In my scenario the two conferences would merge to create one conference, not an Alliance. The divisions would be within the conference, but the 24 teams would be locked into the conference as a whole.

But they would consider themselves the big XII and PAC 12. How do you logically mix them? They are already east and west. If you go north and south, ISU gets a bad draw for games played in recruits home states and is very spread out. We still talk about our old Big 8 teams and feel align with them more than the others, the two conferences would be the same way.

 

[jl112481]

But they would consider themselves the big XII and PAC 12. How do you logically mix them? They are already east and west. If you go north and south, ISU gets a bad draw for games played in recruits home states and is very spread out. We still talk about our old Big 8 teams and feel align with them more than the others, the two conferences would be the same way.

You create two 12 team divisions. You may have to shuffle a little but the Big 12 and PAC 12 teams mainly stay in the same divisions. Below is an example of divisions and pods (it’s just an example, don’t get stuck in the weeds at this point). You then play a schedule similar to a 16 team conference with the pod system.

BIG 12	PAC 12
ISU	ORE
KSU	OSU
KU	WA
WVU	WSU
Team A	Cal
CFU	Stan
Cinn	AZ
Team B	ASU
Baylor	BYU
TCU	UTAH
HU	CO
OK St	TTU

 

[BCClone]

You create two 12 team divisions. You may have to shuffle a little but the Big 12 and PAC 12 teams mainly stay in the same divisions. Below is an example of divisions and pods (it’s just an example, don’t get stuck in the weeds at this point). You then play a schedule similar to a 16 team conference with the pod system.

BIG 12	PAC 12
ISU	ORE
KSU	OSU
KU	WA
WVU	WSU
Team A	Cal
CFU	Stan
Cinn	AZ
Team B	ASU
Baylor	BYU
TCU	UTAH
HU	CO
OK St	TTU

So basically an alliance.

 

[LarryISU]

When Yormark was announced, it said he would start August 1. So isn't Bowlsby still in charge?

 

[cymonw1980]

Do you really want this without the P2? If we do this we are cutting our payouts down to about 10 MM or so. We fight to be #3 and we probably are getting more than we are now and most likely have 1-2 teams in the playoffs for even more money.

This is not the short term... short term is take the 4 from the pac if you can get them... then play it out and see what happens.

Imho, we will have two options in about 10 yrs or so...

Option 1) is more or less what you lay out... we are a (distant) #3 and get some teams in a play off of some kind playing against (but not really competitive with) the P2...

Option 2) is the mega league with all ~100 or so left behind and create a league where revenue differences do not destroy competition (the anti-P2)

In option 1, the issue is going to be that the P2 set all of the rules. Think the G5 v. P5 but worse. There is no way for a "gonzaga" type team to emerge in college football because the rules simply do not allow teams to compete consistently or get consistent access to a playoff for this to happen. I think people are hoping this will change with a new playoff. However, the rules the P2 put in place will make it nearly impossible for anyone outside of this group to compete. Yes you will get an invite but you won't be able to afford the bill. Think free agency every off season with schools procuring talent based on financial resources - schools will begin to directly pay athletes based on revenue. The P2 will have a $100M+ advantage and simply buy anyone talented enough to play for them from the #3 conference (us). You will develop a player just to have him purchased by the highest bidder the following off season. There will not be any real competition between #3 and the P2.

Option 2, we develop a league where revenue is not the driver of competition. That is the beauty of the league. It doesn't matter if you make less in TV money... That is not the goal. The goal is to create the best college sports league in the country. Once it is established and all teams have opportunity to actually compete and win in this league, it could be really fun. You can add relegation between the "FBS" and "FCS" so that even at the lowest levels teams are competing and trying to avoid relegation or teams are trying to move up from lower levels... I think this would be the best and most interesting model for college sports. Sell this to Amazon, Apple, etc. it could become more popular in time than some 24 -32 team semi-pro league ... eventually, if they realize that national interest in a 24 team super league is limited, they may come crawling back... at that point they can play with us - if they accept our rules. Otherwise, they can stay in their super league.

 

[BCClone]

This is not the short term... short term is take the 4 from the pac if you can get them... then play it out and see what happens.

Imho, we will have two options in about 10 yrs or so...

Option 1) is more or less what you lay out... we are a (distant) #3 and get some teams in a play off of some kind playing against (but not really competitive with) the P2...

Option 2) is the mega league with all ~100 or so left behind and create a league where revenue differences do not destroy competition (the anti-P2)

In option 1, the issue is going to be that the P2 set all of the rules. Think the G5 v. P5 but worse. There is no way for a "gonzaga" type team to emerge in college football because the rules simply do not allow teams to compete consistently or get consistent access to a playoff for this to happen. I think people are hoping this will change with a new playoff. However, the rules the P2 put in place will make it nearly impossible for anyone outside of this group to compete. Yes you will get an invite but you won't be able to afford the bill. Think free agency every off season with schools procuring talent based on financial resources - schools will begin to directly pay athletes based on revenue. The P2 will have a $100M+ advantage and simply buy anyone talented enough to play for them from the #3 conference (us). You will develop a player just to have him purchased by the highest bidder the following off season. There will not be any real competition between #3 and the P2.

Option 2, we develop a league where revenue is not the driver of competition. That is the beauty of the league. It doesn't matter if you make less in TV money... That is not the goal. The goal is to create the best college sports league in the country. Once it is established and all teams have opportunity to actually compete and win in this league, it could be really fun. You can add relegation between the "FBS" and "FCS" so that even at the lowest levels teams are competing and trying to avoid relegation or teams are trying to move up from lower levels... I think this would be the best and most interesting model for college sports. Sell this to Amazon, Apple, etc. it could become more popular in time than some 24 -32 team semi-pro league ... eventually, if they realize that national interest in a 24 team super league is limited, they may come crawling back... at that point they can play with us - if they accept our rules. Otherwise, they can stay in their super league.

Or option 3. The top 16-32 teams get tired of floating the also rans and break away. This allows a chance for the top big 12th teams to leap frog. Or we just take the best also rans and be the second best

 

[cymonw1980]

The Big 12 Borg assimilating all of college football is a fun idea, but we should probably wait on sharing revenue with MAC schools until there’s some kind of breakaway that we’re not a part of.

The other big issue that always comes up with an all-college football league is mobility between levels. If every school is getting an equal piece of the pie, what stops FCS schools from moving up to get a piece, eventually making the slices of pie too small for everyone?

Agree... this is not the play for this year. This is more of a long term view. When you go this direction it would be with the plan to break away from the P2 and no longer compete with them. However, this will likely be forced (P2 could be making $100M+ more per year than #3 conf, whoever that is - B12, ACC, PAC; doesn't matter). So, they will establish rules that make it nearly impossible for any team without their financial resources to compete. For example, directly pay athletes the extra $100M they are getting and let players transfer every off season... you develop a player just to have him bought by the P2 in the off season. No way to compete effectively each year.

So, this is a longer term deal.. not short term. Key is to create a league where revenue does not define competitiveness so that when you split up the pie it doesn't matter. Everyone is given access and plays by the same rules.

For FCS/FBS transfers, to me relegation is the way to go... you are competing for your spot in the FBS and in the FCS you are trying to play into the FBS. Use rules similar to soccer... I think it actually adds interest and makes this more interesting.

 

[cymonw1980]

Or option 3. The top 16-32 teams get tired of floating the also rans and break away. This allows a chance for the top big 12th teams to leap frog. Or we just take the best also rans and be the second best

Yes.. this is assumed in option 2. Basically the P2 either actually break away (stop playing everyone else) or they don't literally break away, but they establish rules that make it impossible for the rest to compete. If they actually breakaway (I think this is unlikely short term, but in 5-10 yrs we could see this), then you are forced to split from the P2.

At this point, I would prefer to break away with as many teams as you can and establish a true nation wide college football league with all of the rules - revenue sharing with players (much smaller level since it will be less overall money) contracts that mean something so players and coaches are not bouncing around constantly, regionally relevant groupings of teams that create more natural and interesting rivalry games that you can travel too, etc.

You can create a really fun league that I believe would have much more national interest than a league made up of the top 24 brands...

Understand, the super conference is not what will deliver the most overall value, it just captures the most per school value. You need to break the current model if you want to move to an ideal model.

In 20-25 yrs, who knows, If you can build this, the 24 "brands" may come crawling back from their failed experiment... even if they don't, you have the best college football league even if the P2 have 80% of the draft picks.

 

[Cloneon]

Pac-4 first, then hidden media contract for Virginia, North Carolina, Clemson, and Florida State when best time presents itself. That'd be one hell of a conference.

 

[TXCyclones]

So basically an alliance.

Today I feel like an "alliance" is what is coming rather than any teams coming over to the B12. Instead, I think we see the Pac12 do what the B12 did last year and simply add SDSU and Boise State, effectively putting even more mouths at the table. But this will all hinge on what Fox/ESPN decide to do more than anything else. I'd like to see the B12 take 6 to truly relegate the remaining to the MWC.

The alternative is that its starting to feel like yet another conference being formed taking the best of the left overs from ACC/B12/P12.

ESPN/Disney have killed college football.

 

[BCClone]

Today I feel like an "alliance" is what is coming rather than any teams coming over the B12. Instead, I think we see the Pac12 do what the B12 did last year and simply add SDSU and Boise State, effectively putting even more mouths at the table. But this will all hinge on what Fox/ESPN decide to do more than anything else. I'd like to see the B12 take 6 to truly relegate the remaining to the MWC.

The alternative is that its starting to feel like yet another conference being formed taking the best of the left overs from ACC/B12/P12.

ESPN/Disney have killed college football.

Why I feel if we can pull the AZ schools it will basically relegate the PAC to between AAC and the current PAC. If Oregon leaves, it would be dead then.

 

[Jiub]

Worried PAC 12 sticks together and then they get a good media rights package. Next year they raid top 4 big 12 schools.

 

[BigDH01]

Do you really want this without the P2? If we do this we are cutting our payouts down to about 10 MM or so. We fight to be #3 and we probably are getting more than we are now and most likely have 1-2 teams in the playoffs for even more money.

I wouldn't mind this honestly. Let the p2 go be the NFL's minor league and pretend their football programs have anything to do with their universities and those university's missions. We can watch amateur *student* athletes play the game for the love of the game.

 

[Land Grant]

Change conference name to the "Big Twelve(s)"?

You create two 12 team divisions. You may have to shuffle a little but the Big 12 and PAC 12 teams mainly stay in the same divisions. Below is an example of divisions and pods (it’s just an example, don’t get stuck in the weeds at this point). You then play a schedule similar to a 16 team conference with the pod system.

BIG 12	PAC 12
ISU	ORE
KSU	OSU
KU	WA
WVU	WSU
Team A	Cal
CFU	Stan
Cinn	AZ
Team B	ASU
Baylor	BYU
TCU	UTAH
HU	CO
OK St	TTU

 

[BigDH01]

Today I feel like an "alliance" is what is coming rather than any teams coming over to the B12. Instead, I think we see the Pac12 do what the B12 did last year and simply add SDSU and Boise State, effectively putting even more mouths at the table. But this will all hinge on what Fox/ESPN decide to do more than anything else. I'd like to see the B12 take 6 to truly relegate the remaining to the MWC.

The alternative is that its starting to feel like yet another conference being formed taking the best of the left overs from ACC/B12/P12.

ESPN/Disney have killed college football.

I know it seems like that and it is true that they helped kill what I loved about CFB but CFB has had these issues for awhile. The TV deals are just formalizing it.

They won't need to make any explicit deals the forbids non-P2 teams from playoffs, that's just going to happen as they pay players more than anyone else can offer. It's why I don't understand bickering about PAC 12 revenue vs Big 12, etc. It doesn't matter, neither is enough to compete with those that "made it in."

We're on the outside. Whatever ESPN/Fox plan to do with the "winners" we're not involved. I'm ok with that because I didn't fall in love with CFB because ISU wins national championships but because I went to games with fellow students to watch fellow students play. Whatever the P2 is becoming, it's not that. I don't give 2 ***** about the Iowa Cubs, why the **** should I care about less-talented NFL leagues where the players have no connection to the university and are merely paid athletes?

This could be a good thing. I hope the remaining leagues can get together, come up with an actual revenue sharing program, and provide the fair and equal oversight the NCAA couldn't be bothered to do.

I would love the irony if it turns out in 10 years that ESPN didn't save college football but saved the reasons we actually fell in love with it in the first place.

 

[CascadeClone]

Change conference name to the "Big Twelve(s)"?

Ocean's Twelve?