Hardest Colleges To Get Into for 2023

[carvers4math]

I wish he would've tried to apply to some of the prestigious institutions to see if he would've been accepted. But he had his heart set on ISU from the start. He toyed around with ASU, but when his nerd herd buddies all decided on ISU he was set. His first calculus at ISU this semester is Calc II and that has been a wakeup call. He's doing fine, but it's kicking his butt.

My four that went to ISU just had AP Calc AB, I think, so they all started with Calc II. The curve sometimes got thrown by students who had already taken AP Calc BC and were taking it at ISU thinking it would be an easy grade and they could then count it in GPA. It worked out for some but oldest ISU son wound up tutoring one of those guys who had already taken some of the Calc II content.

Those Calc series can all depend on the prof you get, some suck and then you take departmental tests that your prof may not have covered the material well. Was better for my younger sons as the older ones told them who to take and who to avoid.

My oldest who went to ISU actually got a better scholarship deal from Notre Dame but at that time they did not have the specific engineering major he wanted. They added it two years later. The other three all got a better scholarship deal from ISU than ND.

My only son who didn’t go to ISU wound up with Cyclones as his runner up, as at that time ISU still had the full ride for National Merit scholars. He picked a lot of the schools he applied to based on who gave those scholarships. Ultimately he just could not turn down Caltech. He and many of his Caltech friends were turned down by MIT and the thought was that MIT is harder to get into for white and Asian males since they do try to admit a diverse class. I was surprised he liked Harvard when we visited and he applied and was interviewed for that one. They had tons of applicants because that year was when they started with the full ride for families under $100,000. He was wait listed there but I think he still would not have turned down the Caltech offer if he eventually got into Harvard. Getting the big packet from Caltech in the mail, he had tears in his eyes before he even opened it.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

I'll let her know that if she becomes a gynecologist I already have a patient referral candidate for her.

From our understanding, there is also a huge market for dermatologists due to the popularity of botox and the fact that procedures aren't generally covered and/or discounted by insurance companies.

Dermatology is the second hardest residency program to get into because the job is a cake walk with limited hours and high pay. 100% get it if you can but I only know one person who was able to get admitted into derm in my year out of a whole class full of brilliant people at Michigan. You also don't need to be a physician for that you could easily do it as a PA or NP.

I would strongly recommend having your daughter talk to as many people actively practicing as possible. Almost every day I have a newer physician in tears crying about how they wish they could do almost anything else.

 

[carvers4math]

Correct. My son applied and was accepted into Notre Dame. His AP's and Dual Enrollments would have transferred. Fun Fact: He chose to go to Iowa State, where all his AP and Dual Enrollments also transferred in.

Side Note: Notre Dame was very nice, you can not dispute their academics are good. It was the vibe he got when talking to professors at Notre Dame vs Iowa State and the students he would be working in the lab with that was the deciding factor. He just felt Iowa State was "warmer" and "more comfortable."

Having degrees from both schools, I agree. However, did meet my husband at ND and got engaged at the Grotto, so that was certainly warm and comfortable. And I had some great ND profs including the one I worked for, some great ISU ones too. ISU profs were less scary but that may have been because that was undergrad.

 

[HFCS]

This is kind of why the AAU status on determining prestige is silly. Notre Dame is not an AAU school, yet they're on a list like this.

I'd say if a school loses AAU status (something that is pretty rare), point out all the other metrics where the institution is improving to show that it's no big deal.

 

[jcyclonee]

With my grad degree there, I liked most but not all of them, similar to my fellow Iowa State alumni actually. The ND equivalent to tavern hawks is subway alumni, who adopted ND as their team because of their Irish and/or Catholic immigrant roots. They seem way less obnoxious than tavern hawks.

You have a grad degree from ND? I assume you are a nun.

 

[1100011CS]

With my grad degree there, I liked most but not all of them, similar to my fellow Iowa State alumni actually. The ND equivalent to tavern hawks is subway alumni, who adopted ND as their team because of their Irish and/or Catholic immigrant roots. They seem way less obnoxious than tavern hawks.

That's a low bar

 

[HFCS]

Wartburg and Simpson cost that much? That's insane.

Other than Grinnell I have never understood how private colleges in Iowa draw local students, especially when I was looking at colleges 25 years ago and Iowa/ISU were both ranked significantly higher nationally than they are now.

Maybe for a kid whose family has the money and they want to go to college very local or keep living at home to save that cost and their home isn't Iowa City/Ames. I know as a student who paid my own way and didn't get "free college" from parents I laughed at the price of pretty much all the local private colleges.

 

[carvers4math]

You have a grad degree from ND? I assume you are a nun.

Holy Cross order is kind of chill but I don’t think they allow husbands and kids

 

[HFCS]

I have known that Grinnell College is supposedly an elite college but I don't think I know a single person who has gone there. It is bonkers to me that they have a nearly 3 billion dollar endowment.

I've never met a Grinnell grad in Iowa but I met two in the 15 years I worked in Chicago.

FWIW one of them was identical age, job, field, employer as me.

 

[jcyclonee]

Dermatology is the second hardest residency program to get into because the job is a cake walk with limited hours and high pay. 100% get it if you can but I only know one person who was able to get admitted into derm in my year out of a whole class full of brilliant people at Michigan. You also don't need to be a physician for that you could easily do it as a PA or NP.

I would strongly recommend having your daughter talk to as many people actively practicing as possible. Almost every day I have a newer physician in tears crying about how they wish they could do almost anything else.

That's pretty sad to hear.

She's doing her due diligence. She's actually going to take a gap year. Hopefully, she'll live at home to save some money during that year. There are plenty of med research jobs she can do in the Twin Cities for a year that would actually be good for her med school admission resume.

 

[jcyclonee]

Holy Cross order is kind of chill but I don’t think they allow husbands and kids

I just figured you were hiding those relationships from the order.

 

[FriendlySpartan]

That's pretty sad to hear.

She's doing her due diligence. She's actually going to take a gap year. Hopefully, she'll live at home to save some money during that year. There are plenty of med research jobs she can do in the Twin Cities for a year that would actually be good for her med school admission resume.

Gap years can be really great. If her MCAT scores are good it also doesn't hurt to apply anyways, a lot med schools let you defer your enrollment by a year. That way you can enjoy your gap year without having the anxiety of getting in or worrying about applications/interviews.

 

[ClonerJams]

Other than Grinnell I have never understood how private colleges in Iowa draw local students, especially when I was looking at colleges 25 years ago and Iowa/ISU were both ranked significantly higher nationally than they are now.

Maybe for a kid whose family has the money and they want to go to college very local or keep living at home to save that cost and their home isn't Iowa City/Ames. I know as a student who paid my own way and didn't get "free college" from parents I laughed at the price of pretty much all the local private colleges.

Yeah, I get Drake and Grinnell but if the others cost that much then I can't justify that.

 

[Gonzo]

Other than Grinnell I have never understood how private colleges in Iowa draw local students, especially when I was looking at colleges 25 years ago and Iowa/ISU were both ranked significantly higher nationally than they are now.

Maybe for a kid whose family has the money and they want to go to college very local or keep living at home to save that cost and their home isn't Iowa City/Ames. I know as a student who paid my own way and didn't get "free college" from parents I laughed at the price of pretty much all the local private colleges.

I'd think a lot of it is local kids who want to play college sports but aren't good enough to play for Iowa/ISU/UNI. Another part of it is a lot of kids from smaller towns/schools don't want a huge university environment with 400 kids in a lecture. They think/know they'll be more successful in a smaller environment with smaller classes.

Private colleges typically offer much larger tuition discounts than big public universities. So in the end, the out-of-pocket to attend a Wartburg, Coe, Simpson, etc. is going to be pretty comparable to Iowa or ISU. I have a lot of friends and relatives who've sent their kids to small Iowa privates and they're by no means wealthy.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Yeah, I get Drake and Grinnell but if the others cost that much then I can't justify that.

My mom really wanted me to look at small private school in Iowa -- specifically ones with Christian focus. She was worried about me falling into a 'bad crowd' at ISU, Iowa or UNI etc. My Dad was initially supportive of her too, so that led to me seriously considering schools in NW Iowa, specifically Northwestern and Dordt. Visited both places and came away feeling like they'd be fine fits, but the price tag was just ridiculous. I would have qualified for all kind of financial aid, but still would have been looking at like 20-25k per school year. My Dad really started dragging his feet then and there, but my Mom was stubborn. She won, and I gave it a try, but really hated it. Ended up deciding on my own one random morning to drive back 'home' and sit down with a registrar at NIACC. Signed up for classes for the spring semester at a fraction of the cost, and withdrew from the other school at the semester break. I don't think my Dad had been nor has been prouder of any decision I've made. And my Mom forgave me!

 

[carvers4math]

My wife and I are in your same boat. We have (3) children. 1 in college at Iowa State, 1 in high school , 1 in middle school. We continually push for their challenges in school. We refuse to let them coast. Granted they are blessed when it comes to the academics, which it sounds like your 8th grader is as well.
What I can contribute to you is my child at Iowa State is having a much easier time "adjusting" to the --lets call it: Non High School Classroom. My oldest has seen challenges from the 1st day class and takes a deep breath and says "no different than AP Calculus or Stats as a 9th grader." We have very good friends who share your sisters philosophy. Their children are in college and all (4) are having a very very very hard time adjusting.

As a parent to parent. I will vote over and over that you are doing it correctly.

Having gone through college admissions, scholarship, etc five times, I agree that you are on the right path. Take classes to learn things, not get some easy A.

At some point with weighted high school grading, the harder classes compensate for their difficulty.

I would focus more on test scores. There were lots of kids with GPA over 4 in our high school. The standardized testing does differentiate and could be why there is momentum to eliminate it, in part because of it’s biases.

Hardly any kids at our school take the PSAT. That test is huge, opens your chance at being a Merit scholar. At least make sure your children are familiar with the format with some practice tests. And take practice ACT and SAT tests before the real one.

At least when our kids were in school, they could take the ACT in middle school with a referral from the TAG program through the Belin-Blank Center. If your kids are pretty smart it’s a good way to differentiate where they excel as the usual basic skills test they take up to that point, all the scores are high and you can’t really tell what area is their weakest or best. All five of ours, it made clear that math was just way higher than everything else, and they were all bumped up several grades in math. It also pointed out English and reading as areas they needed the most work. Our solution to that was more and more reading. Helps both with reading and spelling, usage, punctuation, etc.

 

[NWICY]

That's pretty sad to hear.

She's doing her due diligence. She's actually going to take a gap year. Hopefully, she'll live at home to save some money during that year. There are plenty of med research jobs she can do in the Twin Cities for a year that would actually be good for her med school admission resume.

Is this the Drake daughter?

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

It doesn't hurt to have the founder of Intel among your graduates.

Yes.
I have no idea if he has been a big giver. MIT grad school.

 

[TitanClone]

I wish he would've tried to apply to some of the prestigious institutions to see if he would've been accepted. But he had his heart set on ISU from the start. He toyed around with ASU, but when his nerd herd buddies all decided on ISU he was set. His first calculus at ISU this semester is Calc II and that has been a wakeup call. He's doing fine, but it's kicking his butt.

I took Calc in high school so could have started in Calc II at ISU but at the advice of my older brother, who started with II, re took Calc I and it was a great decision. I still finished my freshman year with a s*** GPA because I went into it with the attitude it would be a cake walk like high school.

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

AP and dual enrollment count for credit at ISU but not all schools. At least when my son went to Caltech, they did not accept AP or dual enrollment for credit. Their classes were pretty rigorous, first year Calculus included proof Calculus. I am guessing some other schools also do not accept them, probably MIT and maybe some similar schools in the math/science vein such as Harvey Mudd. All of my boys were admitted to Notre Dame but none went there, they did accept AP and if I remember correctly, dual enrollment credits.

Most of these top schools do not accept AP for credit. If you get a 5 on the AP score your senior year of high school then you will get credit at most, if not all, of these universities.