For those of you not excited about B Ball and FBall

[cyclonedrew]

I have some sites for you to check out that might help...

http://duke.rivals.com/ This is a basketball site.. You may come to love this team.. However you may not like there coach.. He is an Army Boy with no recruiting ability when he took the job.. He had no big name schools trying to get him..

http://oklahoma.rivals.com THis is football site... You may not like there coach.. He is from Iowa so he probably can't recruit very well...

So get off the Iowa State train right now... I have gave you 2 schools to choose from.. You will have nothing to complain about over there.. They are perfect... I am sick of people moaning about GMac and Big Mac... Let's go have fun at some games this year..

 

[discombobulated]

And what in hell would that have to do with our coaches? Mcc has been here for EVER and has had 6 years to take us to the next level, stoops had a national title in what, his third year?
Coach K? you are compairing mcd to coack K? williams now this? get serious

 

[URBCLONE]

So if anyone expresses any reservations about the coaching staff they need to find new teams? Does this work retroactively ie. if you expressed reservations about Jim Criner while he was the head coach you are disqualified as a Cyclone fan circa 1985?

Believe it or not, anyone who takes the time to acquire a user id and password and write posts on this board is a Cyclone fan. Everyone on this board wants what is best for ISU athletics. The approach and the people who will take us there are what is at issue.

 

[melkor]

This post is stupid. Bob Stoops is ten times the coach McCarney is (and I like McCarney), and a Coach K to GMac comparison is silly. Are you saying that because there may be slight comparisons to their starting positions, that GMac will have the same success Coach K has? That my friend is faulty logic.

 

[CyLyte]

I gotta ask melkor, how the hell do you know what GMac is going to do. How do you know that it is faulty logic? Simply because you've been pouting about hiring the UNI coach since we did isn't an answer.

 

[cyclonedrew]

I am saying these coaches were nobody's when they started and now are something.. Stoops took over Oklahoma.. Have you been to an Oklahoma game in Norman.. It's not even the same ball park as us.. They have million of dollars in facilities... Did you ever Go into the football locker room and see what they were like when Mac took over.. I did because i was a ball boy with my brothers for the Clones.. It was junk... So you say 9 years but Mac is just now getting facilites that are decent... Still not on par with Iowa, Nebraska, OU, Texas.. So you can't expect us to beat them schools in football every year... So if you want to be like those schools with wins then you need to become a fan of them..

As far as Basketball.. We have a new coach.. You are taking him to the grinder without him even coaching a big time game yet.. If you were a Duke fan when Coach K was hired you would have said how he came from Army.. Had no big time experience.. Was not worthy of Duke.. Then you would have had to jump on the bandwagon...

I am telling you right now.. If you were not around in the 80's then shut up about Big Mac.. He has done more then any coach in ISU history...

If you are a JOhnny Orr fan then you will realize GMAC had almost as good of a coaching record at UNI then ORR did at ISU... So either get on or get off.. Just quit complaining about stupid crap all the time.. IT's old and tired...

I am ready for some fun... Football and basketball...

 

[discombobulated]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
I am saying these coaches were nobody's when they started and now are something.. Stoops took over Oklahoma.. Have you been to an Oklahoma game in Norman.. It's not even the same ball park as us.. They have million of dollars in facilities... Did you ever Go into the football locker room and see what they were like when Mac took over.. I did because i was a ball boy with my brothers for the Clones.. It was junk... So you say 9 years but Mac is just now getting facilites that are decent... Still no on par with Iowa, Nebraska, OU, Texas.. So you can't expect us to be them schools in football every year... So if you want to be like those schools with wins then you need to become a fan of them..

As far as Basketball.. We have a new coach.. You are taking him to the grinder without him even coaching a big time game yet.. If you were a Duke fan when Coach K was hired you would have said how he came from Army.. Had no big time experience.. Was not worthy of Duke.. Then you would have had to jump on the bandwagon...

I am telling you right now.. If you were not around in the 80's then shut up about Big Mac.. He has done more then any coach in ISU history...

If you are a JOhnny Orr fan then you will realize GMAC had almost as good of a coaching record at UNI then ORR did at ISU... So either get on or get off.. Just quit complaining about stupid crap all the time.. IT's old and tired...

I am ready for some fun... Football and basketball...
[/b][/quote]
ORR WENT TO A NATIONAL TITLE GAME. Do not compare this guy to Orr, that is just stupid, almost as stupid as comparing records between the big 8 and MVC. I was around in the 80's, and he has not done more than any other coach. He has done more than walden, I have never even thought about saying that I liked anything about walden other than he always had a good kicker, and he recruited troy davis (a big reason for the "success" of mac.) lets look at the coaching tree of ISU shall we? as assistants we had john fox, pete carrol, jimmy johnson, and a bunch more. We had freaking johnny majors and earle bruce as coaches. They won a bunch, and we actually went to a bowl game in the 70's, when it ment something to go to one.
Mac is a horrible game day coach. It is simple as that. I like him, but he has lost more games for us by trying to run the clock out with 5 minutes left or playing prevent D then he should be allowed. Every loss lost year with the possible exception of one, can be pinned firmly on Mac's shoulders. Majors did not make those mistakes, and went on to win a national title, as did jimmy and pete.That is how you make a compairison.

 

[cyclonedrew]

Key word is "went on" to win a national title... Coach orr "went" to a national title game... All of this happened not at Iowa State.. All of this happened at other schools... Johnny Major, Jimmy Johnson, Earl Bruce.. They all left.. WHY??? Because it's freakin hard as hell to win at Iowa State in Football...

 

[CyLyte]

Don't worry about it drew. Discom still hasn't grasped the fact that he's been privy to more winning in a decade under DMac than Cyclone fans have been EVER.

 

[melkor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
I gotta ask melkor, how the hell do you know what GMac is going to do. How do you know that it is faulty logic? Simply because you've been pouting about hiring the UNI coach since we did isn't an answer.
[/b][/quote]

When did I say that I knew what he was going to do? I'll help you out. The answer is never. I base my worries about the program based on GMac's past coaching jobs. I don't like his past style of play and I don't think that his past accomplishments are as impressive as others do. I haven't been pouting, unless you count being upset at the player attrition and the reasons behind it.

It is faulty logic because to compare Coach K and GMac and imply that because they are starting at similair situations, that GMac will also have success is a Non-Sequitor. It is like saying because a then b. But there is no correlation between their starting situations and having success. Just like me comparing GMac and some other coach with a similair starting situation who failed miserably would mean that GMac would fail.

I hope that my fears about GMac and his plan for ISU basketball are unfounded. I hope that we are instantly and outrageously successful. If so, then I will come on here and eat crow till I burst. I only want the best for ISU basketball. I just am not sold on GMac as being that. What is wrong with that. I don't come on here and start pessimistic posts. I just come on here and question the blind faith in McDermott. If that bothers you then I suggest that you refrain from reading and replying to my posts. Then we will both be happier. But seriously have a nice day and keep supporting the cylcones.

 

[CyLyte]

I find it interesting that one would worry about GMac based on his past coaching jobs where all he has ever done is win at a higher rate than previoously at that school. If he does that at ISU that could get us to a title game. I think all the angst comes from hiring UNIs coach who got in a fight with our former coach. The can coach basketball he already proved that.

 

[cyclonedrew]

The interesting part for me is that we got rid of a coach who at his previous school failed miserable (wayne) now we have a coach who has success wherever he has been and the coach these two don't like is the one with success... Does that make sense to anyone???

I liked Wayne.. He just was not that good at disipline...

 

[dbronco7sc]

melkor is correct that because Coach K did it, doesn't mean GMac will do it. But the way I read cyclonedrew's post was that... because Coach K did it, it is possible for GMac to do it. He gave an example where is has been done before, so nobody can make the claim that GMac WILL be terrible, because someone in a similar situation was successful. But like melkor said, you can't make the claim that GMac WILL be successful either.

 

[discombobulated]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
The interesting part for me is that we got rid of a coach who at his previous school failed miserable (wayne) now we have a coach who has success wherever he has been and the coach these two don't like is the one with success... Does that make sense to anyone???

I liked Wayne.. He just was not that good at disipline...
[/b][/quote]
Why are you talking about walden now. I assume that is the coach that failed at his prior school because Morgan had a 29 win season. Tim floyd had won everywhere he went, until he went to the Bulls. Just because someone had a little success at a small school, doesn't neccisarily translate into winning at a big school, think Dana Altman, Alford, etc.

 

[cyclonedrew]

Wayne did fail.. He had to quit because his teams were going nowhere at LBSU...

Our two other coaches that we all love, Floyd, and Larry were both small school guys before they came to ISU.. Gmac seems to have the same pedigree as Floyd and Larry.. They all started at a very small school.. Then moved up to the next level.. Then the next level..

I don't guarentee any coach will succeed. However I am not going to throw GMAC under a bus before he even trots our guys out on to the floor...

If you all are nervous because of player defections then you must look at the player who defected...

1. Shawn Taggart... He is not that good... He played lazy and his stat line is horrible... He also does not play any defense.
2. Farnold Degand... Don't know enough about him to tell.. I understand he was good in practice and the rec league.
3. Tasheed Carr... He announced before Wayne was fired so that is not on GMAC.. Carr was ready to bolt Ames
4. Curtis Stinson... Declared for the draft before Wayne was fired.
5. Will Blalock... Declared for the draft before Wayne was fired.. Also said he would come back if his stock was not high..
6. Mike Evanovich... Was Stealing Ceasar's minutes before he decided to leave..
7. John Neal... Graduated

The guys we want.. Jiri, Marsden, Gray, CLARK all stayed.. Clark is the man.. Loved Wayne enough to cry on TV.. He loves ISU more.. That is good enough for me...

 

[melkor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
melkor is correct that because Coach K did it, doesn't mean GMac will do it. But the way I read cyclonedrew's post was that... because Coach K did it, it is possible for GMac to do it. He gave an example where is has been done before, so nobody can make the claim that GMac WILL be terrible, because someone in a similar situation was successful. But like melkor said, you can't make the claim that GMac WILL be successful either.
[/b][/quote]

Exactly. GMac may be successful, and I hope that he is, but to make that comparison, you would have to find all of the coaches with similar backgrounds and starting situations and see what the "success rate" is for such coaches.

 

[discombobulated]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
Wayne did fail.. He had to quit because his teams were going nowhere at LBSU...

Our two other coaches that we all love, Floyd, and Larry were both small school guys before they came to ISU.. Gmac seems to have the same pedigree as Floyd and Larry.. They all started at a very small school.. Then moved up to the next level.. Then the next level..

I don't guarentee any coach will succeed. However I am not going to throw GMAC under a bus before he even trots our guys out on to the floor...

If you all are nervous because of player defections then you must look at the player who defected...

1. Shawn Taggart... He is not that good... He played lazy and his stat line is horrible... He also does not play any defense.
2. Farnold Degand... Don't know enough about him to tell.. I understand he was good in practice and the rec league.
3. Tasheed Carr... He announced before Wayne was fired so that is not on GMAC.. Carr was ready to bolt Ames
4. Curtis Stinson... Declared for the draft before Wayne was fired.
5. Will Blalock... Declared for the draft before Wayne was fired.. Also said he would come back if his stock was not high..
6. Mike Evanovich... Was Stealing Ceasar's minutes before he decided to leave..
7. John Neal... Graduated

The guys we want.. Jiri, Marsden, Gray, CLARK all stayed.. Clark is the man.. Loved Wayne enough to cry on TV.. He loves ISU more.. That is good enough for me...
[/b][/quote]
The difference between Mcd and the two other coaches is that they won at every level, he hasn't. Wasnt Larry the first coach to have a conference title at three different schools. And NO was really clicking in floyds last year, finishing the season ranked and in the tourney. Uni finished last year on a massive losing streak and yet another first round bounce from the tourney. So not that similar.
I am seriously sick of you saying taggs is lazy, he sucks. I say you flap your gums on a message board and know nothing about evaluating basketball talent. Jim calipari coached in the NBA and had a 1 seed last year in the tourney, he knows about evaluating basketball talent. Gee who's opinion do I put more stock in? His stat line was terrible? for a true freshman, it seems to be better than rm, jh and almost every ever big we ever had all with an illness and a hip problem. BTW his defection leaves with exactly 3 "bigs". Jessan feels a lot more comfortable playing a 2 or 3, so there goes that. The other 2, barring a massive weight gain and attitude adjustment (aka the addittion of a mean streak) are not ready to play the 5.
Our loss of all guards mean we will have an entirely new backcourt, that is not ever good."the guys we want"? do you have a turd in your pocket or something? the guys I want was everyone on the list in addittion to the others plus the recruits. But maybe Im different, I like to win.

 

[CyLyte]

Now you're a liar. You don't like to win. Youlike to score 72 and will boo if we win but don't score 72. Those are your words. If you like to win you'll like GMac cause that's all he's ever done. One other thing, GMac went 11-7 in his conference this year. His conference was rated the same or slightly higher than the Big XII, got as many NCAA Tourney bids as the Big XII, had a team knock off the Big XII Tourney winner and season runner up, and advanced more teams to the Sweet 16 than the Big XII.

 

[discombobulated]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>
Now you're a liar. You don't like to win. Youlike to score 72 and will boo if we win but don't score 72. Those are your words. If you like to win you'll like GMac cause that's all he's ever done. One other thing, GMac went 11-7 in his conference this year. His conference was rated the same or slightly higher than the Big XII, got as many NCAA Tourney bids as the Big XII, had a team knock off the Big XII Tourney winner and season runner up, and advanced more teams to the Sweet 16 than the Big XII.
[/b][/quote]
You must have found your mom's crack pipe this morning. I hate to win.If win was all he has ever done, then why did he never win the conference or an Ncaa game? Yes I will boo every time we don't score at least 100 points, it has nthing to do at all with the style of play, or the run out the shot clock offense we are going to run. Where in the hell was the MVC considered as good or better than the Big 12. Yes I know they had a great year for them this year, but a big issue all year was how absolutely horrible RPI was. Unless I am mistaken, there were a couple teams left out of the dance with awesome RPI's due to the commonly percieved defects in it. By your logic, MVC was better than the big 12,(11), beast, and acc. The only conferences that were better were the SEC, Pac-10 and George Mason's conf. No rational person thinks that if we were to do a big 12 mvc challenge, they would take us top to bottom. And pleaseremind me which one of those teams that went to the sweet 16 was mcd coaching?

 

[benjay]

Actually, the Big 12 was pretty bad this year, outside of Texas and chokemaster Kansas. And even in a bad conference, Morgan only managed 6 wins.

McDermott > Morgan