Exxon records record profits

DaddyMac

Well-Known Member
Oct 18, 2006
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I know there are a few other factors, but if the price of oil (and gas) is mainly a supply and demand issue, why did the price go up 100% in a year or so when demand only went up 10% or so. Still doesn't make sense to me.

Because it could.

It's all speculation. Being a commodity the markets are set because of what they think will happen, what the demand will be, what may or may not happen to the supplies.

In many ways, prices have very little to do with reality.
 

Flag Guy

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2007
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I know this is a pipe dream - but given the state of the world and the amount of oil we import (and therefore the cash we export), and the volatility of the oil commodity market - shouldn't that alone be enough for us to demand/encourage innovation and use of alternatives.


Yes it should, but then reality sets in
 

joefrog

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2008
8,207
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Clive, Iowa
I know this is a pipe dream - but given the state of the world and the amount of oil we import (and therefore the cash we export), and the volatility of the oil commodity market - shouldn't that alone be enough for us to demand/encourage innovation and use of alternatives.

I hope so. I have invested a decent amount of money in a bio-diesel plant in NW Iowa. I try to practice what I preach. I am for expanding our own production across the board, fossil fuels, renewable sources, and nuclear. The technology has come so far, it is idiotic not to take advantage of American ingenuity.
 

besserheimerphat

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Apr 11, 2006
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Mount Vernon, WA
I know there are a few other factors, but if the price of oil (and gas) is mainly a supply and demand issue, why did the price go up 100% in a year or so when demand only went up 10% or so. Still doesn't make sense to me.

I believe that the refineries are operating at nearly 100% capacity - they are pumping out as much fuel as they possibly can. If the demand increases by just a few percent, suddenly the supply is unable to keep up due to limited refining capacity. Once we're using fuel at a faster rate than we can produce it, it becomes significantly more valuable. FYI, while there haven't been any new refineries in the US in many years, most refineries have expanded significantly over the past few years. I think a lot of that added capacity is due to come on line soon if it hasn't already.
 

Irresponsible

Active Member
Jul 3, 2008
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Seattle, WA
I know there are a few other factors, but if the price of oil (and gas) is mainly a supply and demand issue, why did the price go up 100% in a year or so when demand only went up 10% or so. Still doesn't make sense to me.

You're trying to reduce a complicated argument to a simple linear relationship. The corresponding changes in price are a function of the slope of the supply and demand curves (Calculus does have a few practical applications), and may not be 1:1. Suffice it to say, supply and demand are concepts from the free market. Oil is only vaguely a free market commodity.

It is subject to the political whims of colluding dictators as well heavy regulations by the U.S. government.
 

jumbopackage

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2007
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I know there are a few other factors, but if the price of oil (and gas) is mainly a supply and demand issue, why did the price go up 100% in a year or so when demand only went up 10% or so. Still doesn't make sense to me.

Because sometimes small changes in demand can create huge changes in the price of a good if the supply side of things is relatively inelastic. I.e. if you are pretty much tapped out on the supply side of the equation (you're producing about as much as you can), demand going up will mean that prices will skyrocket. Also, small changes in the supply side of things - for instance turmoil in Nigeria - can have a HUGE impact on the price of oil.

Here's a pretty good article that explains it to some extent.

Price Elasticity in the real world — Oil Prices « Blahla

Read up more about Price Elasticity of Demand (PED) and Price Elasticity of Supply (PES) if you want more detail as to the "why".
 

Irresponsible

Active Member
Jul 3, 2008
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Seattle, WA
Read up more about Price Elasticity of Demand (PED) and Price Elasticity of Supply (PES) if you want more detail as to the "why".

Gosh, this was a great oil company bashing thread until you Debbie Downers ruined it by becoming rational. How do you have time to be here? Don't you have to go short the yen or something?
 

Clone9

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2006
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Boston, MA
I'm not against a company making a profit, but should such successful companies be receiving massive tax breaks?
 

jumbopackage

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2007
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I'm not against a company making a profit, but should such successful companies be receiving massive tax breaks?

Would you rather they take their earnings overseas to tax havens?

I'm not entirely for them getting massive tax breaks, but high taxes discourage investment, and encourage outsourcing and locating lucrative headquarters operations overseas.

The US has one of the highest business tax rates in the world. The Tax Foundation - U.S. Business Tax Rates Fall Behind By Standing Still (Corporate Tax Rates in U.S. vs. OECD Average, 1981-2008)
Tax rates around the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In a global economy, it's difficult to attract business and increase your tax base when there are more attractive alternatives in other developed countries. 5% of 1000 is 5 times more than 10% of 100.
 
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Irresponsible

Active Member
Jul 3, 2008
705
70
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Seattle, WA
I'm not against a company making a profit, but should such successful companies be receiving massive tax breaks?

Be careful. The majority of your audience is in a farming area that is still being subsidized even though corn and soybeans struck record high prices last summer. Methinks the tobacco farmers of the Carolinas might not cotton to your argument, either.
 

Covenant Clone

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2006
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Clive
Some explain how they make record profit, yet gas prices have been cut nearly in half.

Well the record profits come from the fact that they are the largest company in the history of the world and they can cut gas prices because the raw material to produce the gas is half the cost and the demand for the gas has come way down.
 

brianhos

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Jun 1, 2006
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Would you rather they take their earnings overseas to tax havens?

I'm not entirely for them getting massive tax breaks, but high taxes discourage investment, and encourage outsourcing and locating lucrative headquarters operations overseas.

The US has one of the highest business tax rates in the world. The Tax Foundation - U.S. Business Tax Rates Fall Behind By Standing Still (Corporate Tax Rates in U.S. vs. OECD Average, 1981-2008)
Tax rates around the world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In a global economy, it's difficult to attract business and increase your tax base when there are more attractive alternatives in other developed countries. 5% of 1000 is 5 times more than 10% of 100.

ohh now you did it.... off to the cave we go! ohh wait.
 

Flag Guy

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2007
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Yep, that was dumb, hopefully we do not do this on a national scale.

Yeah... though thats bound to be affecting us on a national level arleady. $75 of $120 in Taxes and fees... it is profitable to live in Alaska I guess when the rest of the country is paying your government
 

CYKOFAN

Well-Known Member
Mar 27, 2006
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Somebody that knows more about economics could answer this better than I, but I'm sure I've read that our corporate tax rates are high compared to other developed countries until you factor in all the various write-offs, credits, shelters, etc so taxes actually paid by U.S.corporations are actually pretty low on a worldwide basis.
 

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