Demarion Watson has entered the portal

[HFCS]

Is there data for this? How was it obvious? He would have provided some length but was noted for not being able to guard the perimeter all that well.

Which 3 guards play increased minutes with many players injured?

I'm guessing he's an above average player in rebounds and blocks per minute in his seasons here. You could show me I'm wrong but I'd be absolutely shocked. He also is above average length and foot speed. I see absolutely nothing that shows he'd be a worse than typical defender for us. On offense he's admittedly less of a plus but he wasn't a turnover machine or a black hole with the ball.

Tamin and Cujo couldn't play many more minutes, but it's the end of the season. Cujo was healthy, he just plays the entire game. Monte played the entire game for practically 3 straight years. Heise's minutes increase even more than they did. Maybe I'm too much of an NBA fan but I cannot imagine any NBA coach being down a starting guard and his answer is to bring up an unathletic player from the G league who has never played in the NBA playoffs before vs just rearranging the players he has in more of a position fluid scheme...and I think a g leaguer getting dropped in NBA playoffs is far less desperate than trying Kelderman vs Ole Miss or whomever we'd have played after that and in the final stretch of B12.

 

[madguy30]

I'm guessing he's an above average player in rebounds and blocks per minute in his seasons here. You could show me I'm wrong but I'd be absolutely shocked. He also is above average length and foot speed. I see absolutely nothing that shows he'd be a worse than typical defender for us. On offense he's admittedly less of a plus but he wasn't a turnover machine or a black hole with the ball.

Tamin and Cujo couldn't play many more minutes, but it's the end of the season. Cujo was healthy, he just plays the entire game. Monte played the entire game for practically 3 straight years. Heise's minutes increase even more than they did. Maybe I'm too much of an NBA fan but I cannot imagine any NBA coach being down a starting guard and his answer is to bring up an unathletic player from the G league who has never played in the NBA playoffs before vs just rearranging the players he has in more of a position fluid scheme...and I think a g leaguer getting dropped in NBA playoffs is far less desperate than trying Kelderman vs Ole Miss or whomever we'd have played after that and in the final stretch of B12.

So did you want Heise to take on PG duties? How do you know there wasn't rearranging of things?

And I'm not sure where you saw the foot speed on DWat. It looked like that's what held him back from guarding.

I'll let this go because it's a month later but man alive this assumption that ISU was much better with a North Texas player is one of the more fascinating things on here and that's saying something.

 

[HFCS]

So did you want Heise to take on PG duties? How do you know there wasn't rearranging of things?

And I'm not sure where you saw the foot speed on DWat. It looked like that's what held him back from guarding.

I'll let this go because it's a month later but man alive this assumption that ISU was much better with a North Texas player is one of the more fascinating things on here and that's saying something.

Nobody’s saying your last paragraph, some of our fans construct that and react to their own construction.

I’m saying an athletic North Texas third year player is a better option than a walk on most of the time and basketball, like soccer, isn’t football. It’s far more of a positionless sport.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Nobody’s saying your last paragraph, some of our fans construct that and react to their own construction.

I’m saying an athletic North Texas third year player is a better option than a walk on most of the time and basketball, like soccer, isn’t football. It’s far more of a positionless sport.

The Kelderman played over Watson and Nojus because he's a point guard truthers on this site have chosen to die on that hill with TJ and the staff. What the conversation should be more focused around is the development/ recruiting deficiencies of the staff over the last 2-3 years. The fact that Watson never really improved from his freshman year to now is concerning. The fact that a 4- star freshman who looked every bit the part entering the season couldn't find minutes to play over a walk on is concerning. I don't know what the answer is, but the staff needs to do a better job of developing these guys and getting them ready. They might have to sacrifice some on the analytics side of things and get these guys more reps in the non con. That's the only way they're ever going to be ready and last more than 1 or 2 seasons in Ames

 

[HFCS]

The Kelderman played over Watson and Nojus because he's a point guard truthers on this site have chosen to die on that hill with TJ and the staff. What the conversation should be more focused around is the development/ recruiting deficiencies of the staff over the last 2-3 years. The fact that Watson never really improved from his freshman year to now is concerning. The fact that a 4- star freshman who looked every bit the part entering the season couldn't find minutes to play over a walk on is concerning. I don't know what the answer is, but the staff needs to do a better job of developing these guys and getting them ready. They might have to sacrifice some on the analytics side of things and get these guys more reps in the non con. That's the only way they're ever going to be ready and last more than 1 or 2 seasons in Ames

This is totally true, in addition to my point that in a pinch you can get by in modern basketball with 3 guards and a lot of athletic/long wings, certainly more than a walk on who cannot possibly match up against athletically stacked teams.

It’s a little both of these. It’s weird people spend time on a message board but can’t handle even minor criticism, this might be my only criticism ever of TJ and it’s like PITCHFORKS!!! It’s ok for a great coach to not be absolutely perfect, I’m guessing TJ would readily admit what you are talking about is a risk vs reward calculation that fell apart a bit this year because of injuries. If you told him for sure that he’d end the season without Gilbert and with Tamin hurt he may have made a different calculation.

 

[bozclone]

This is totally true, in addition to my point that in a pinch you can get by in modern basketball with 3 guards and a lot of athletic/long wings, certainly more than a walk on who cannot possibly match up against athletically stacked teams.

It’s a little both of these. It’s weird people spend time on a message board but can’t handle even minor criticism, this might be my only criticism ever of TJ and it’s like PITCHFORKS!!! It’s ok for a great coach to not be absolutely perfect, I’m guessing TJ would readily admit what you are talking about is a risk vs reward calculation that fell apart a bit this year because of injuries. If you told him for sure that he’d end the season without Gilbert and with Tamin hurt he may have made a different calculation.

TJ’s freshman PG left before school started. Pierce would have provided another option at PG after the injuries to Gilbert and Tamin.

 

[madguy30]

The Kelderman played over Watson and Nojus because he's a point guard truthers on this site have chosen to die on that hill with TJ and the staff. What the conversation should be more focused around is the development/ recruiting deficiencies of the staff over the last 2-3 years. The fact that Watson never really improved from his freshman year to now is concerning. The fact that a 4- star freshman who looked every bit the part entering the season couldn't find minutes to play over a walk on is concerning. I don't know what the answer is, but the staff needs to do a better job of developing these guys and getting them ready. They might have to sacrifice some on the analytics side of things and get these guys more reps in the non con. That's the only way they're ever going to be ready and last more than 1 or 2 seasons in Ames

Thought I'd drop this but here we are.

Watson's at North Texas. NORTH. TEXAS. And he's not a point guard so it's not even the same conversation for who should be bringing up the ball. THAT is dying on a hill.

Exactly one PG aside from Lipsey was available at the end of the season, and they happened to be a walk on with limitations.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Thought I'd drop this but here we are.

Watson's at North Texas. NORTH. TEXAS. And he's not a point guard so it's not even the same conversation for who should be bringing up the ball. THAT is dying on a hill.

Exactly one PG aside from Lipsey was available at the end of the season, and they happened to be a walk on with limitations.

North Texas is a good program, not some massive step down from ISU, just saying. Nobody is arguing Watson should have been bringing the ball up the court either. I'd have to go back and watch the last 3-4 games where Kelderman played significant minutes, but I'd guess he only brought the ball up the court single- digit times and spent the majority of time off the ball. He wasn't orchestrating anything, so that's why I think the point guard argument is a little bunk. He played simply because TJ trusted him more than the guys who didn't play, and whether people want to admit it or not, is an indictment, albeit small one, on him for not having more scholarship bodies ready to go.

 

[madguy30]

North Texas is a good program, not some massive step down from ISU, just saying. Nobody is arguing Watson should have been bringing the ball up the court either. I'd have to go back and watch the last 3-4 games where Kelderman played significant minutes, but I'd guess he only brought the ball up the court single- digit times and spent the majority of time off the ball. He wasn't orchestrating anything, so that's why I think the point guard argument is a little bunk. He played simply because TJ trusted him more than the guys who didn't play, and whether people want to admit it or not, is an indictment, albeit small one, on him for not having more scholarship bodies ready to go.

An indictment? How would he have more scholarship PGs ready to play on the roster with one out and another at about half speed? Why does that keep being ignored?

Just get 6-7 guards to hang out on the bench?

Yes, Keldermsn's job was to get the ball up the court because he was trusted to do that likely since he had time in the program. What was he supposed to 'orchestrate'? Just take over the offense?

And North Texas is a massive step down from a top 15ish P4 program. Watson going there should be more telling but let's just pretend NT is a about the same thing.

 

[cayin]

Thought I'd drop this but here we are.

Watson's at North Texas. NORTH. TEXAS. And he's not a point guard so it's not even the same conversation for who should be bringing up the ball. THAT is dying on a hill.

Exactly one PG aside from Lipsey was available at the end of the season, and they happened to be a walk on with limitations.

based on your North Texas logic, we probably shouldn't be putting players out there that come from Utah Valley, Eastern Washington, and Buffalo. When you are playing a long and athletic team like Ole Miss, you need athletes to counter. A short unathletic walk on guard on the floor against that was a recipe for disaster. It wasn't ideal, but Watson gives you the best chance in that situation. And lets not forget, when called on Watson came through for us most of the time, he proved he could go out there and play decent basketball for us. I'll never forget him chasing down a breakaway and blocking it from behind, awesome atheltic play.

 

[madguy30]

bases on your North Texas logic, we probably shouldn't be putting players out there that come from Utah Valley, Eastern Washington, and Bufalo. When you are playing a long and athletic team like Ole Miss, you need athletes to counter. I short unatheletic walk on guard on the floor against that was a recipe for disaster. It wasn't ideal, but Watson gives you the best chance in that situation. And lets not forget, when called on Watson came through for us most of the time, he proved he could go out there and play decent basketball for us. I'll never forget him chasing down a breakaway and blocking it from behind, awesome atheltic play.

Kelderman is 6'1, so is Lipsey. Lipsey is more athletic, but you didn't want a short player out there?

ISU plays those guys because that's the guys they got. They didn't leave ISU to go to those schools so that point doesn't hold up.

ISU has done very well for being limited athletically, and that was pretty obvious for anyone paying attention. Give them a limited roster against a long athletic team and then also not hit shots and yeah, an NCAA tourney game won't go well.

To be clear, are you saying you wanted Watson bringing the ball up?

Because otherwise it's 'I'm not saying Watson should bring the ball up, but he should have been playing instead of the guy available to bring the ball up due to injuries'.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

He left. Move on with your lives.

 

[NoCreativity]

Watson's at North Texas. NORTH. TEXAS.

What does this mean? Mccasland came from North Texas and they usually finish in the top 3 in the American, which is a top 10 conference.

 

[madguy30]

What does this mean? Mccasland came from North Texas and they usually finish in the top 3 in the American, which is a top 10 conference.

It means he dropped down a level of conference in division 1 basketball. NT is solid but isn't that a bit different than if he made a lateral move or at least went to a P4 school?

Yes, players have come from smaller schools and done well at ISU.

If we're 'indicting' or have 'concerns' for the program on not developing freshman in one season is it fair to say they've done well for having a lot of smaller conference players?

 

[NoCreativity]

It means he dropped down a level of conference in division 1 basketball. NT is solid but isn't that a bit different than if he made a lateral move or at least went to a P4 school?

Maybe, maybe not. I honestly don't think North Texas is that far off from a program like Pitt right now. That conference was absolutely terrible.