Can Hillary Win?

alaskaguy

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
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After Obamas sock it to the middle class social security tax plan

Obama is conceptually wrong about his social security tax not hurting the middle class. Being rich has nothing to do with percentages. Imagine if everyone in America made less than $30,000 then no one would be rich, not even the top 1%.

Call me an elitist but $97,500 is not a lot of money.
 

iceclone

Member
Nov 26, 2006
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Obama is conceptually wrong about his social security tax not hurting the middle class. Being rich has nothing to do with percentages. Imagine if everyone in America made less than $30,000 then no one would be rich, not even the top 1%.

Call me an elitist but $97,500 is not a lot of money.

Making $97,500 is definitely not being rich.

People that make in the low six figures are indeed middle class under any definition that I am familiar with; or in more detailed classifications, this group is also sometimes referred to as the professional class or upper middle class. Obama's plan will thus be a tax increase for the upper middle class, but I'm ok with that. I do think it avoids the key problem with social security, and it would not be my plan, but I don't think it is horrible either.
 

Stormin

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
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Making $97,500 is definitely not being rich.

People that make in the low six figures are indeed middle class under any definition that I am familiar with; or in more detailed classifications, this group is also sometimes referred to as the professional class or upper middle class. Obama's plan will thus be a tax increase for the upper middle class, but I'm ok with that. I do think it avoids the key problem with social security, and it would not be my plan, but I don't think it is horrible either.

Remember that Social Security only applies to Earned income. Interest, Dividends, Rent, and all other passive income are exempt from Social Security tax.

When you are talking about the top 10% of wage earners making over $100k, it makes it a bit of a stretch to call them middle class. When is the middle, themiddle. If you are in the top 10% and are still in the middle, where in the heck does the middle class stop? Heck, everyone considers themselves to be middle class working Americans.

Probably more accurate to label them the bottom of the upper class.
 

iceclone

Member
Nov 26, 2006
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Remember that Social Security only applies to Earned income. Interest, Dividends, Rent, and all other passive income are exempt from Social Security tax.

When you are talking about the top 10% of wage earners making over $100k, it makes it a bit of a stretch to call them middle class. When is the middle, themiddle. If you are in the top 10% and are still in the middle, where in the heck does the middle class stop? Heck, everyone considers themselves to be middle class working Americans.

Probably more accurate to label them the bottom of the upper class.

You make a good point about earned income.

I also agree that 'middle class' is a not a very good term since those that the are above the middle class (‘elite,’ ‘rich,’ ‘upper class’) are less than 5% of the population. What defines this upper class group is not just income but wealth, so as alaskaguy pointed out above, it is not possible to define the group as a simple percentage of top income earners. Furthermore, due to accumulated wealth much of the income of an upper class person may not be earned income; and as you point out, much of their income would hence not subject to social security fact.

The group we are discussing (say, upper 90s, low six figures income), are mostly well educated, salaried professional, who do indeed derive most of their income from earned income, and are hence subject to social security tax on most of their income. Since their income is in the top 10% or top 15% or so of all earners, ‘middle class’ may indeed sound like a contradiction. Rather than upper middle class it may be better to use the term professional class. Anyway, while it is clearly very good income, making low six figures does not automatically make your rich. Such income would only qualify you for the upper class if it were accompanied with significant wealth.
 

jdoggivjc

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2006
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Macomb, MI
What one thing nobody has mentioned here is $100k salary isn't necessarily a lot of money - it really depends where you live.

To someone who has lived in Iowa all their lives, $100k is going to sound like a tremendous amount of money. However, that same $100k does not go nearly as far as if you were living in say Long Island, Chicago, Washington, or LA. Cost of living in those areas is exponentially greater there than in Iowa (a house that would cost $150,000 in Iowa would cost about $700,000 in Long Island - land values there are that expensive), and earning $100k just isn't the same as earning $100k here. I don't know what the actual proportion is, but I'm pretty confident in saying that someone earning $100k in New York is about the equivalent to someone earning $60-70k in the Midwest.
 

Stormin

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2006
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What one thing nobody has mentioned here is $100k salary isn't necessarily a lot of money - it really depends where you live.

To someone who has lived in Iowa all their lives, $100k is going to sound like a tremendous amount of money. However, that same $100k does not go nearly as far as if you were living in say Long Island, Chicago, Washington, or LA. Cost of living in those areas is exponentially greater there than in Iowa (a house that would cost $150,000 in Iowa would cost about $700,000 in Long Island - land values there are that expensive), and earning $100k just isn't the same as earning $100k here. I don't know what the actual proportion is, but I'm pretty confident in saying that someone earning $100k in New York is about the equivalent to someone earning $60-70k in the Midwest.

And a person doing the same job in Iowa as the person in New York would be compensated at a much lower rate. lI guess those things are all considerations that one must make when seeking employment. My daughter took a job transfer to NYC a few years back. Big increase in pay. Cost of living is much higher. She had the same type of job, but was paid a lot more money. Actually better off back here in the Midwest, where she is now. Live and learn I guess.