Big 3

[Bobber]

Never thought I'd see the day when the Big 3 wouldn't make it, but they're pretty darns close.:sad:

Ford's the only one who I think has much of a chance. They've been putting out some good products lately that have gotten some decent reviews(Focus, Fusion, Fusion Hybrid, F150).

I like GM's product line, but just too much bad inertia with legacy costs, lower volume, bureaucracy.

Chrysler is a basket case.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

The Big 3's problems can be summed up with three letters, UAW.

If they didn't have to pay their employees $90 an hour, the would be able to survive this tough economy.

We have decided our next vehicle will come from non-UAW labor.

 

[BryceC]

The union isn't helping matters but they've had crap management for YEARS. They are completely unable to compete in the marketplace because they have not anticipated problems before they arise. How long did it take them to create a car that is competitive with the Camry that was the nationwide best seller for how many years? I mean it's idoicy at so many levels. Unfortunately we poured tens of billions into a loser earlier this year.

 

[cybsball20]

I could care less about the big three, but I really feel for thier suppliers...

 

[BryceC]

I could care less about the big three, but I really feel for thier suppliers...

I also feel for the dealers. Selling in this market with a product a lot of people don't trust. Oi.

 

[snowcraig2.0]

I could care less about the big three, but I really feel for thier suppliers...

Agreed.

 

[brianhos]

Glad we spent all that money trying to "save" them. Maybe it is time to start taking our lumps on housing and bankruptcy for failed businesses.

 

[redrocker]

I am just glad that I am not in the market for a new vehicle for atleast 3 years.

 

[CloneIce]

They are in trouble, it looks like GM at least will go down. It is a sad day, but honestly the quality of cars they make is just not as good as the competition, especially with the price. However, losing our manufacturing base of our country is not a good thing for the long-term future of our country.... I read an article by Ben Stein on this subject a few months back and he made some good points on the importance of keeping America's ability to manufacture strong.

One of the posters on here has to be exaggerating though on $90 an hour, they do get paid extremely well for their work but they don't all make $170K a year working on the line. I'd always head they make like 80-100K a year which is still a helluva lot.

 

[cyhiphopp]

When you put everything you have into SUV's and big pick up trucks, you are going to lose a lot when everyone stops buying them.

 

[Incyte]

I REALLY hope the government lets GM die. This would help Ford which appears to be the best run of the three.

The more the gov't gets involved the more likely all three die.

 

[Bobber]

They are in trouble, it looks like GM at least will go down. It is a sad day, but honestly the quality of cars they make is just not as good as the competition, especially with the price. However, losing our manufacturing base of our country is not a good thing for the long-term future of our country.... I read an article by Ben Stein on this subject a few months back and he made some good points on the importance of keeping America's ability to manufacture strong.

One of the posters on here has to be exaggerating though on $90 an hour, they do get paid extremely well for their work but they don't all make $170K a year working on the line. I'd always head they make like 80-100K a year which is still a helluva lot.

I disagree on the quality comment. They've mades some good strides. Cadillac will compete with anyone. The Corvette, Arcadia, Saturn Aura, and any of their pickup trucks are all competive vehicles in their segement.

The problem is they have a fair number of dogs too. Pontiac should have been dumped 10 years ago. That and they have a higher breakeven point than most competiors.

 

[brianhos]

They are in trouble, it looks like GM at least will go down. It is a sad day, but honestly the quality of cars they make is just not as good as the competition, especially with the price. However, losing our manufacturing base of our country is not a good thing for the long-term future of our country.... I read an article by Ben Stein on this subject a few months back and he made some good points on the importance of keeping America's ability to manufacture strong.

One of the posters on here has to be exaggerating though on $90 an hour, they do get paid extremely well for their work but they don't all make $170K a year working on the line. I'd always head they make like 80-100K a year which is still a helluva lot.

Bankruptcy does not mean they will go under. This is Ch11 not Ch7.

 

[cybsball20]

Bankruptcy does not mean they will go under. This is Ch11 not Ch7.

How many of the suppliers WILL go under though?

 

[usedcarguy]

Never thought I'd see the day when the Big 3 wouldn't make it, but they're pretty darns close.:sad:

Ford's the only one who I think has much of a chance. They've been putting out some good products lately that have gotten some decent reviews(Focus, Fusion, Fusion Hybrid, F150).

I like GM's product line, but just too much bad inertia with legacy costs, lower volume, bureaucracy.

Chrysler is a basket case.

Ford is somewhat lucky in the fact that they sucked much worse 10 years ago. It forced them to circle the wagons, and make improvements before the economy went to crap. Because of that, they are now the best positioned of the "Big 3."

IMO Chrysler and GM are both toast. Nationwide sales are tracking lower than the pessimistic side of the projections they gave to congress.

The debt is a big anchor and bankruptcy is more than likely the only solution.

 

[brianhos]

How many of the suppliers WILL go under though?

All this should mean is they are able to renegotiate their contracts and pension programs. I bet most suppliers will be fine. It is not like they are going to stop producing cars.

What will hurt is all those retirees who did plan for anything outside their pension. Of course the government guarantees those. So this is going to hurt the taxpayers too.

 

[Bobber]

All this should mean is they are able to renegotiate their contracts and pension programs. I bet most suppliers will be fine. It is not like they are going to stop producing cars.

What will hurt is all those retirees who did plan for anything outside their pension. Of course the government guarantees those. So this is going to hurt the taxpayers too.

I was talking with a dealer the other day and he told me that if it goes bad, parts are going to get very expensive because the suppliers will not be obligated to their contracts.

 

[aeroclone]

They are in trouble, it looks like GM at least will go down. It is a sad day, but honestly the quality of cars they make is just not as good as the competition, especially with the price. However, losing our manufacturing base of our country is not a good thing for the long-term future of our country.... I read an article by Ben Stein on this subject a few months back and he made some good points on the importance of keeping America's ability to manufacture strong.

One of the posters on here has to be exaggerating though on $90 an hour, they do get paid extremely well for their work but they don't all make $170K a year working on the line. I'd always head they make like 80-100K a year which is still a helluva lot.

The $90 figure that gets tossed around isn't an hourly wage, it is more of a loaded labor rate. It includes wages, plus benefits, plus a portion of the cost that the company owes the union retirees for pensions, retirement benefits, etc. I don't know if $90 is the exact figure or not off the top of my head, but it is really high for people working an assembly line.

I know major comanies with highly educated, technical work forces that come in at a rate that is in the ballpark of being half of that.

 

[Clonegrad07]

sad... very sad... I really would like to buy a GM too... maybe now is the time...

 

[usedcarguy]

How many of the suppliers WILL go under though?

It depends. If you're a supplier who works exclusively with GM or Chrysler, and/or you have accounts receivable with them, your future prognosis is good. If you supply several manufacturers and don't have all your eggs in one basket, your odds are much better.

The issues with the suppliers are no different than the manufacturers from the standpoint that as long as someone else will come along and purchase the assets from bankruptcy and continues the business, the loss of jobs is minimal. If the business then goes to suppliers outside the country, then it's a HUGE negative.