Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

[Cyrealist]

I will say it again. The reason the NFL is so much better and college football is a junior product or almost a cult is all of these engineered matchups that mean something when committees or networks want the game to or they choose to dismiss the game if they don't like the results. Its picking and choosing to get the desired results and anyone that is not a blueblood or at least a school championed by the SEC or B1G gets screwed. Its more akin to WWE fixing results than a playoff.

I use to think I liked CFB because it was rivalry, style of play, etc. I would watch games in all 4 windows of time. Then I realized what a joke the ending of the season was and completely stopped watching bowl games and playoffs except where ISU & Iowa are involved.

The older I get the more I realize the only reason I USE TO WATCH college football more than the NFL was the state of Iowa has two teams that play. Take away those reasons and there is no reason to watch the sport, it has so many flaws by the way it is ran, even though it could be really good. This goes to the point I have made with you on other points. CFB can't thumb its nose at everyone other than 40 programs and expect to thrive, its not that popular.

You seem to be saying the entire value of college football is to be able to name a national champion at the end of it all. The value of a bowl system is LOTS of teams can have a good season at their level of play and be rewarded with a bowl game at the end of it. ESPN wants to put all the emphasis on playoffs which devalues regular season games, especially for those teams not in the running for playoff spots. For a BigXII team, finishing third in the conference and going to the Alamo Bowl is a good season and it's not irrelevant to the sport.

 

[Cyrealist]

Is a CCG even a true conference champion with unbalanced schedules? It is just one game based on an artificial separation of teams. The number 2 team in the BIG Ten East will almost always be the second best Big 10 team. Why need a conference champion at all?

Outside of the Big 12 round robin schedule, there will always be an element of "not true" champion, CCG or not. Arguably the Big 12 CCG is not the true champion, although I would say that depends on the delta between #1 and #2 going into the game

If you win the B1G West, you're not going to like conceding first AND second place in the conference to other schools who you maybe didn't even play

 

[WhoISthis]

Actually, unless you play infinitely many games, no system, including round robin, is going to reveal the true strength of teams with absolute certainty. "Champion" and "best team" are two very different terms.

Exactly, why even bother in that sense, although I think we can all admit the incremental gain between round robin and infinite is small.

 

[WhoISthis]

If you win the B1G West, you're not going to like conceding first AND second place in the conference to other schools who you maybe didn't even play

Wait, are we talking about what people like or "true champion" efforts?
The CCG in the Big 10 is not a true champion imo

 

[Jeh]

American targeting Mountain West powers among handful of expansion candidates in realignment

Big 12 executives are also watching closely as the Pac-12 negotiates a new TV deal in 2024 when its current agreement with Fox and ESPN expires. If the Pac-12 media rights revenue approximates that of the Big 12 at that time, there is a feeling within the Big 12 some Pac-12 schools might be interested in joining.

That's an interesting thought.

 

[Cyrealist]

Wait, are we talking about what people like or "true champion" efforts?
The CCG in the Big 10 is not a true champion imo

OK, a champion determined on the field rather than by pollsters.

 

[Die4Cy]

Is a CCG even a true conference champion with unbalanced schedules? It is just one game based on an artificial separation of teams. The number 2 team in the BIG Ten East will almost always be the second best Big 10 team. Why need a conference champion at all?

Outside of the Big 12 round robin schedule, there will always be an element of "not true" champion, CCG or not. Arguably the Big 12 CCG is not the true champion, although I would say that depends on the delta between #1 and #2 going into the game

Conferences will reorganize for competitive balance should the playoff only guarantee a spot for the winner of the CCG. This is something we all should want. One of the biggest failings of the old big 12 and the divisions of the current big 10 is that one division is irrelevant.

 

[KnappShack]

American targeting Mountain West powers among handful of expansion candidates in realignment



That's an interesting thought.

The hunted becomes the hunter

 

[LLCoolCY]

American targeting Mountain West powers among handful of expansion candidates in realignment



That's an interesting thought.

I've been thinking the same thing and one reason I would like the league to be patient on adding teams until we see the PAC12 deal. We have heard the whispers for years that the old Big 12 would target the Arizona schools due to their discontent and if that doesn't change with the new deal they may be listen. (Colorado/Utah too).
No reason to lock in 2-4 new teams (BSU/Memphis level) today at least until the new TV deals and UT/OU exit dates are known.

 

[isucy86]

The other interesting part of the article was the last paragraph about the AAC, C-USA and Sunbelt combining and then restructuring to have 3 geographically based divisions. The benefit mentioned is reduced travel cost. But I wonder if it is a sign that G5 schools might move to creating their own playoff structure to increase TV Revenue. Especially if Boise, Memphis end up in Big12.

 

[Win5002]

You seem to be saying the entire value of college football is to be able to name a national champion at the end of it all. The value of a bowl system is LOTS of teams can have a good season at their level of play and be rewarded with a bowl game at the end of it. ESPN wants to put all the emphasis on playoffs which devalues regular season games, especially for those teams not in the running for playoff spots. For a BigXII team, finishing third in the conference and going to the Alamo Bowl is a good season and it's not irrelevant to the sport.

Yes , every sport I can name works that way except CFB. That is the point of athletics.

A Useless postseason exhibition game played a month after the season is a horrible idea.

 

[Win5002]

American targeting Mountain West powers among handful of expansion candidates in realignment



That's an interesting thought.

I'm certain it won't happen unless USC and at least 3 others leave but that might not surprise me at all.

 

[FeedBreece]

American targeting Mountain West powers among handful of expansion candidates in realignment



That's an interesting thought.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

OK, a champion determined on the field rather than by pollsters.

As I posted before the latest re-alignment started, I was of the opinion that on Championship Week, the two highest ranked teams not in a championship game should play. The winner of that game and the winner of the seven highest ranked championship games would be in an 8 team playoff.

Technically, that would have meant that 16 teams had a shot at the national title.

Now I don't even know if there WILL be seven conferences left!

 

[scyclonekid]

Raid the PAC, go get the blue bloods from that conference

 

[2speedy1]

There's material in here that was new to me. I've underlined parts that may be of particular interest.


In August 2014, the NCAA Division I Board of Directors voted to allow the 65 schools in the five wealthiest conferences the autonomy to write many of their own rules.

The following January, at the annual NCAA Convention, the members of the SEC, ACC, Big Ten, Big 12 and Pac-12 were able to establish ways of doing business specific to them. The smaller NCAA member schools, more than 300, could opt in, but could no longer use their strength in number to stop the big boys from charting a new course.

Power-five conference members opted to give their athletes stipends that cover full cost of attendance above and beyond the athletic scholarship and offer those scholarships for the duration of their college careers. Previously, scholarships were one-year agreements renewable annually. There are other components, but that's a key one.

Texas Tech and Houston opened the 2021 season facing each other as non-conference opponents. In the near future, the two teams will be together as Big 12 members with UH accepting an invitation on Friday to join the conference.
That's important to keep in mind in the wake of the major changes to the college sports landscape this summer.

Power-five status is not merely a perception; it was legislated. The "autonomy five" do business, in some ways, as they see fit.

Texas and Oklahoma are leaving the Big 12 for the SEC, by July 2025 and perhaps sooner, and the Big 12 moved quickly to replace those two schools, extending membership invitations that were formally accepted Friday by Brigham Young, Central Florida, Cincinnati and Houston.

The departures of the two most high-profile schools can't be glossed over. No one expects the media-rights partners to pay as much for a reconstituted Big 12 as one with the national brands the Sooners and Longhorns represent. The moves shook the Big 12 and prompted many who support the eight left behind to wonder: Is the Big 12 still a power-five conference? To not be, however, that status would need to be revoked or relinquished voluntarily.

Again, power-five stature was legislated, giving members of those schools more say in how they do business.

In addition to making some of their own rules to give their athletes extra benefits, members of those five conferences also are guaranteed representation on the College Football Playoff selection committee. Tech athletics director Kirby Hocutt has chaired that committee in the past, and Kansas State AD Gene Taylor is a current member.

Once accorded that status, there's no way a conference is going to give that up.

Texas Tech has no plans to opt out of giving its athletes the extra benefits permitted since the landmark 2015 NCAA Convention.

We asked Hocutt whether Tech, potentially facing some difficult budget questions with the uncertain value of the annual Big 12 revenue distribution post-2025, would consider dropping the full cost-of-attendance stipend.

"No way, no," Hocutt said. "No way. Never even crossed our mind."

For scholarships that cover full cost of attendance, Tech athletics pays about $750,000 a year more than what it did in the past.

Tech plans to keep doing that, and there appears a good chance the Big 12' financial shortfall from a lower-media-rights payout on the front end can be be somewhat mitigated on the back end by an expanded College Football Playoff.

USA Today's Steve Berkowitz reported in June that the proposed expansion of the College Football Playoff to 12 teams could triple the CFP's value, from about $600 million a year under the current four-team model to more than $2 billion annually. That's based on projections supplied to USA Today from Navigate, a firm specializing in college and professional sports rights valuations.

CFP revenue funnels down to the schools, with members of the autonomy-five conferences receiving more.

There's no reason to think Tech won't be part of the power-five, or its equivalent, once the Big 12 is reformed. "Our position within the NCAA governance structure," Hocutt said, "is not going to change."

So are there reasons to think the Big 12 looks less appealing and marketable minus UT and OU? For sure.

But the Big 12 losing its status among college football's top tier of conferences isn't likely to be one.

Don Williams is a sports reporter for the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal.

This is interesting, but wasnt the sentiment a few weeks ago that the idea behind the SECs overall future plan is to eliminate the NCAA as it is known today, at least as it governs certain aspects, like the playoff.

As long as the NCAA continues with its current power and structure I believe the above will continue, at least for the most part.

But...If the SEC does succeed in destroying or breaking away, with or without other conferences, from the NCAA all of this is moot. None of this autonomy as agreed in the NCAA matters between the 5 conferences or 65 schools. It will be what is decided at that point.

Frankly, even if the NCAA is still the governing body, there is nothing to say that at some point in the near or distant future all of the mentioned agreements are completely reworked/renegotiated to something completely different.

Just because there is an agreement or contract in place today does not mean that will always be the case, it can be changed in the future, just as how these agreements changed what was in place before them.

 

[Cyrealist]

This is interesting, but wasnt the sentiment a few weeks ago that the idea behind the SECs overall future plan is to eliminate the NCAA as it is known today, at least as it governs certain aspects, like the playoff.

As long as the NCAA continues with its current power and structure I believe the above will continue, at least for the most part.

But...If the SEC does succeed in destroying or breaking away, with or without other conferences, from the NCAA all of this is moot. None of this autonomy as agreed in the NCAA matters between the 5 conferences or 65 schools. It will be what is decided at that point.

Frankly, even if the NCAA is still the governing body, there is nothing to say that at some point in the near or distant future all of the mentioned agreements are completely reworked/renegotiated to something completely different.

Just because there is an agreement or contract in place today does not mean that will always be the case, it can be changed in the future, just as how these agreements changed what was in place before them.

If the SEC says "Let's do this" and everyone else says "Let's not" it isn't going to happen. I don't believe SEC football on an island is that valuable.

 

[WhoISthis]

If the SEC says "Let's do this" and everyone else says "Let's not" it isn't going to happen. I don't believe SEC football on an island is that valuable.

Game of chicken. The other 4 without the SEC are also diminished. And good luck recruiting against the SEC when they’re pay to play. The other 4 conferences would lose key programs to the SEC (Clemson), be viewed as the NIT of CFB postseason, and eventually all that could, would leave to join the SEC

 

[KnappShack]

Game of chicken. The other 4 without the SEC are also diminished. And good luck recruiting against the SEC when they’re pay to play. The other 4 conferences would lose key programs to the SEC (Clemson), be viewed as the NIT of CFB postseason, and eventually all that could, would leave to join the SEC

Clemson to the SEC just sounds right. It seems to be a fit.

 

[AuH2O]

Game of chicken. The other 4 without the SEC are also diminished. And good luck recruiting against the SEC when they’re pay to play. The other 4 conferences would lose key programs to the SEC (Clemson), be viewed as the NIT of CFB postseason, and eventually all that could, would leave to join the SEC

Except all that only matters long term if they make big money. The SEC schools have to make a ton of money to support a pay for play system so far above that it crushes the rest of the leagues. And if anybody thinks a 16 team or even 20 team SEC circle jerk isolated in their own league that includes some underwhelming and irrelevant schools is going to be wildly lucrative they are nuts.