Better Coach - Self or Dreamy

[PullnPray]

How far in the tourney's did Self's teams go before he was able to inherit the McD AA parade at UK? It would be an interesting head to head comparison to Fred.

KU's 2011-2012 team that won the Big 12 and made it all the way to the NC game had 2 walk-ons in its 8 man rotation. Self also took Tulsa and Illinois to the Elite 8. This is really the first KU team that has been lead by one and done guys.

At this point, Self is obviously the more accomplished coach. But Hoiberg is great. I hope he stays at ISU a long time and never goes to the NBA.

 

[oldman]

Didn't Self take over for Kruger at Illinois when he went to the NBA?

 

[awd4cy]

Self/thread

 

[BloodyBuddy]

Who would you take if you had to win one game? Fred is as good as anyone at game planning.

 

[CarlHungus]

Self might be the best coach in the country, so it's not a knock against Fred to say Self

 

[pourcyne]

Which one would you trust with your keys? That's the better man.

Which one would you trust with your kid? That's the better coach.

Answers: Dreamy and Dreamy.

Just curious about how Selfish's graduation rate stacks up with Fred's.

 

[Psyclone Brian]

In the words of Hurl Beechum, "...a blind man can coach that team." I don't think Bill Self has that great of a talented coaching I.Q. I do however think he has an extremely talented team, and that's all. My understanding is that his assistants do more in practice, in coaching and recruiting than he does. Yes, I know his record speaks for itself, but I'd like to see Self, or Roy, or even coach Nose (@ Duke) go to a different school like Slippery Rock State or any other University of non-winning tradition, and see how quick they can turn that school around (if at all).

 

[ThatllDoCy]

I wouldn't trade Fred for Bill, but Bill Self is the best Coach in the NCAA. I hate KU, but they play hard and smart even though they are blue chip athletes that could lose focus.

Fred is still learning which is what makes him scary. He will only get better, and when he starts landing the talent Self does it could be a different story. Turning ISU into a national power is a long term job.

 

[Motown]

Just curious about how Selfish's graduation rate stacks up with Fred's.

In the classroom, Kansas has achieved an Academic Progress Rate (APR) score of a perfect 1,000 in each of the last six years under Self. In the Bill Self era, Kansas has had 25 Academic All-Big 12 selections, which is best in the conference, and 26 of 27 four-year players at KU have earned their degrees.

http://www.woodenaward.com/?p=1269

 

[CyCy]

After his first 3 years as a head coach Self had a 34-47 record at Oral Roberts. Fred has a much better start than Self.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Which one would you trust with your keys? That's the better man.

Which one would you trust with your kid? That's the better coach.

Answers: Dreamy and Dreamy.

Just curious about how Selfish's graduation rate stacks up with Fred's.

Graduation rate is moot if your players "graduate" to the pros.

 

[BigCojones]

Say they both are NBA coaches of roughly evenly talented teams who you got?
If they both had equal talent vs each other I would take Fred any day of the week. But in college self has a lopsided talent advantage.

 

[jbhtexas]

Hard to argue against Self...as has been said, his record speaks for itself, he can recruit the good players, and his teams are tough and sound.

Hoiberg has done a great job. Last year, his third year, had Royce White stuck around for more than one year (and been able to avoid melting down), Hoiberg IMO would have assembled a squad could have taken the Big 12 title and quite possibly gone to the Final Four...that's impressive for year 3.

Last year (and this year is looking to be the same), ISU seems just one player away from jumping into the elite of college basketball...Hoiberg needs to find that guy who can defend the paint and provide some easy points close to the hoop.

 

[Cyclophile1]

Self is arguably the best coach in the game right now. Until we win a few championships, this isn't really even a question.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Hoiberg would not have lost 4 games with the talent that Self has.

 

[Ciclone]

Say they both are NBA coaches of roughly evenly talented teams who you got?
If they both had equal talent vs each other I would take Fred any day of the week. But in college self has a lopsided talent advantage.

Yes. Right now, it's like asking "Who is better - the casino or the guy at the blackjack table?"

Ask again in 2-3 years.

 

[pourcyne]

In the classroom, Kansas has achieved an Academic Progress Rate (APR) score of a perfect 1,000 in each of the last six years under Self. In the Bill Self era, Kansas has had 25 Academic All-Big 12 selections, which is best in the conference, and 26 of 27 four-year players at KU have earned their degrees.

Kansas

Thank you for the info.

I have a sneaking hunch, however, that those figures include college-wide athletics (just looking at the wording) and not just the men's basketball team, especially since those figures seem to clash with those published here.

I wonder also how many of the four-year players counted ever really played on the court?

Then again, I'm sure other schools do the same sort of manipulation with figures, especially all of those that list their graduation rate at 100%. Seems a little too good to be true.

 

[thatguy]

sigh....Its threads like these why this website has become hard to read. Self is much much better.

 

[im4cyclones]

Some of you are comparing resumes, which isn't exactly fair. That said, Self is a great coach. And from everything I have read, seen, and heard is that he a good guy.

Swap coaches. Where would they be? Where would we be?

 

[Motown]

Thank you for the info.

I have a sneaking hunch, however, that those figures include college-wide athletics (just looking at the wording) and not just the men's basketball team, especially since those figures seem to clash with those published here.

I wonder also how many of the four-year players counted ever really played on the court?

Then again, I'm sure other schools do the same sort of manipulation with figures, especially all of those that list their graduation rate at 100%. Seems a little too good to be true.

There isn't any manipulation, Kansas has had a nearly flawless track record on the hoops side. Turner Gill hurt our football players in the classroom and on the field, but Weis has turned much of the former around.

Every player under Self who didn't transfer out or leave for the pros early finished with a degree. A few earned masters. Aldrich was an academic All-American who returned last year to take a couple classes to finish his degree (after leaving early in '10).

I understand the disdain for KU around here, but they have a solid track record with their student-athletes (and sure, many are much more athlete than student).

KU wins the Academic Performance Tournament national championship / LJWorld.com