what is it about more established wealthy neighborhoods

[AntiSnob]

that tend to keep kids away? I was talking with someone I know who lives in the KC area and he was mentioning how south Overland Park and Mission Hills are both wealthy areas but tend to attract different people. He said South OP tends to attract people with kids still in the house - but with high earning potential - while Mission Hills has a lot of older people living there.

This made me think about my own observations in the Des Moines area. My mom's parents lived in the south of grand neighborhood in des moines for 28 years and they would mention whenever a neighbor had children - because it was so rare. On the other hand, the less established wealthy neighborhoods (and by that I mean areas with fewer trees and with newer homes) such as southern WDM (south of EP True and east of 60th) and the part of Urbandale west of 35 - I would assume there were more kids since I went to high school with a lot of kids who lived in those areas.

So I don't know what explains the differences.

 

[ArgentCy]

I'm going to take a wild guess with some experience. Those were the neighborhoods when they were new. Young couples with good jobs buy where ever the newer homes are located. I don't now why but people seem to abhor slightly older houses if they can buy new or nearly new.

 

[BikeSkiClone]

My guess/observation: people with kids or of average childbearing age want to live with folks in a similar life stage so their kids have other kids to play with. A couple in their 20s or 30s moving into a neighborhood dominated by retirees is 1.) going to have less in common with their older neighbors and 2.) possibly be the only family on the block with kids.

In 30+ years, I think you'll see today's "young" areas be the "child free (except for grandkids)" areas. It's a cycle.

 

[FerShizzle]

that tend to keep kids away? I was talking with someone I know who lives in the KC area and he was mentioning how south Overland Park and Mission Hills are both wealthy areas but tend to attract different people. He said South OP tends to attract people with kids still in the house - but with high earning potential - while Mission Hills has a lot of older people living there.

This made me think about my own observations in the Des Moines area. My mom's parents lived in the south of grand neighborhood in des moines for 28 years and they would mention whenever a neighbor had children - because it was so rare. On the other hand, the less established wealthy neighborhoods (and by that I mean areas with fewer trees and with newer homes) such as southern WDM (south of EP True and east of 60th) and the part of Urbandale west of 35 - I would assume there were more kids since I went to high school with a lot of kids who lived in those areas.

So I don't know what explains the differences.

$$$ and schools

 

[DeereClone]

My guess/observation: people with kids or of average childbearing age want to live with folks in a similar life stage so their kids have other kids to play with. A couple in their 20s or 30s moving into a neighborhood dominated by retirees is 1.) going to have less in common with their older neighbors and 2.) possibly be the only family on the block with kids.

In 30+ years, I think you'll see today's "young" areas be the "child free (except for grandkids)" areas. It's a cycle.

This.

Then after a phase of not having any kids in the neighborhood the retirees move to condos/town homes/assisted living places and young families buy the houses and it starts all over again. That’s where my neighborhood is right now - when we bought 5 years ago we were the only young couple/family and now it’s close to 50-50.

 

[somecyguy]

I think I'm the complete opposite. I would not buy a new home, for multiple reasons, but HOAs and lack of mature trees a couple of major ones. I bought a home in an admittedly older wealthy neighborhood, that had almost no kids. My kids at the time were 2nd and 6th graders.

The lack of children around was a concern, but I prioritized the location and neighborhood itself. We could (and did) take the kids to their friends homes and host play dates. I can appreciate the novelty of living in a subdivision with a bunch of kids riding their bikes on the sidewalks etc. I grew up in a similar situation. But in return I got a bigger lot for them to play on and less car traffic. It took some adjustment, but I know it was a good decision for us.

 

[Gunnerclone]

you can build or buy a new house and walk in and it’s ready. A lot of homes in places like SOG are really great houses with amazing lots but many do not reflect on the inside what you see on the outside and would require total guts to update properly. Plus foundation issues, water issues, etc are just a headache that people in Des Moines don’t have to deal with if they don’t want to, because the brand new housing in the suburbs is at a point where it’s still very close to downtown/more established areas relative to that of larger cities where the new construction is 45-an hour outside of the Center.

 

[DBQR4CY]

While a brand new home is still an expensive option given most are going to start at $250k+. In those nice older neighborhoods the homes don't fit the open concept that homes owners are looking for today. Also, with those older homes people tend to think that their homes are worth more than what they are. They think that while they didn't keep their homes up to date its worth a new build price.

 

[Cyclone.TV]

Man poor people suck, amirite?

 

[WhatchaGonnaDo]

I'm going to take a wild guess with some experience. Those were the neighborhoods when they were new. Young couples with good jobs buy where ever the newer homes are located. I don't now why but people seem to abhor slightly older houses if they can buy new or nearly new.

I don't know about that.

Wife and I bought a house last summer in an old DSM neighborhood for 110K. There are definitely plenty of older people around that have been here forever but now they are moving on in life. Younger people are moving in on the houses and fixing up/doing updates the older folks just couldn't handle anymore. Also because they're cheap houses with a lot of character and only 10-15 min away from downtown.

 

[Sousaclone]

While a brand new home is still an expensive option given most are going to start at $250k+. In those nice older neighborhoods the homes don't fit the open concept that homes owners are looking for today. Also, with those older homes people tend to think that their homes are worth more than what they are. They think that while they didn't keep their homes up to date its worth a new build price.

I think this is a big item as well. I'm starting to look at buying a house in Houston (I'm single with no kids so I don't have to be concerned about that) and some of the more 'mature' neighborhoods and home prices just don't seem to match the asking price compared to the current status of the homes. To get some of the older houses to be comparable you are looking at dropping $30k to get kitchen, bathrooms, etc up to date and the house will still flow and feel like an older house (relatively closed floorplan, low ceiling heights, etc)

The kid cycle thing is also true. I remember my neighborhood growing up there were tons of us out running about. My parents commented that they are starting to see some younger families start moving in again after a bunch of quiet years.

 

[Knownothing]

I bought new so I didn't have to worry about plumbing, heating, air, and all of that. If you buy a $250k house that was built in 1920. Unless, it' s all re done. You have to worry about that stuff. That is extra expense. If it is already all done it makes the price go up on the house. I bought a new house so I never had to worry. Well at least for a long time. I think a lot of younger people who are having kids like that as well. The budget does not normally allow for a new furnace or new plumbing.

 

[chuckd4735]

School districts are a big thing as well.

 

[dmclone]

Never had kids and don't live in a wealthy area but here is what I've seen. We bought our house new in 2005. At the time we bought, we were the only couple in the area without kids. 13 years later probably 75% of my neighbors are the same people and their kids have grown up and are out of the house or really close to moving out. What will be interesting now is to see if my neighbors move/downsize and young families w/kids move in. So far, everyone seems to be staying put.

We've considered moving/downsizing but living in Johnston has been fine, we're a few years from paying off the house, and downsizing would probably mean us buying a ranch and spending $150k more to get it exactly how we want it.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Some good comments on here.

I think it is simply this. We don’t built traditional neighborhoods any longer (on a street grid, walkable to a local business district/schools, variety of housing types/styles, etc). Because of this, the home prices are inflated when you compared to what you can get in a brand new home built atop of what was a corn field a few years ago. It is supply and demand. Families with kids tend to have less disposable income, less time/money to spend on upkeep, and thus they are going to go where they can get the most bang for their buck.

When I think of families with kids that do live in the more affluent established neighborhoods just west of downtown Des Moines (and they are there), they are doctors, lawyers, business owners, etc. They can hire someone to remodel what isn’t working for them or can call-in a handyman to repair things as they were out/need attention.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Building on my comment about a lot of this being a result of supply and demand. In many cases, what we most desire, is simply not available for mulitiple reasons, so we settle.

In the real world, all revealed preferences are deeply contextual. We don’t make decisions in a vacuum. When we choose a home or a neighborhood, we buy a “bundle” of attributes that can’t be unbundled: square footage; amenities; neighborhood features such as good schools, a low crime rate, a nice park; proximity to jobs and recreation; like-minded neighbors; a gut-level sense of comfort. All this must come at a price that's within our ability to pay. Even in the largest metro areas, you can't mix and match every one of these desires on an a-la-carte basis. Instead, you weigh trade-offs.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/3/28/give-the-people-what-they-want

 

[3GenClone]

We actually just put an offer in on a house South of Grand yesterday - wish us luck! We're moving from Windsor Heights and heading East into the city, rather than going West. I understand that my wife and I are doing things the "wrong way" in terms of popular opinion, but we both grew up in the suburbs - I was raised in Clive and she moved to Waukee in the mid-90s. We both agreed that we really want our kids to go to Roosevelt schools. I personally don't see the difference from WDM/Waukee/Johnston/Ankeny and Roosevelt when it comes to what a decent school is - but that's my biased opinion which was formulated in the late-90s and early-2000s when I attended Valley HS. The biggest factor into our decision making was having our kids go to a "decent"/"good" school district that was more economically and ethnically diverse. I don't feel like my kids will be shorted an opportunity if they want to go to college, and in fact they have more opportunities if they would rather pick up a trade while still going to HS than they would in the suburbs.

Something that I think is inevitable is that these older homes in Des Moines are going to be bought up and gutted or perhaps torn down completely and rebuilt in the "McMansion" style. This is already happening in Minneapolis and some of these are young couples/young families that want new construction, with proximity to downtown but not the commute to the suburbs. The HGTV-style of remodeling isn't going away any time soon and I think this is the next phase of Des Moines real estate - but that's probably 30 years away from happening.

 

[2forISU]

The problem with new neighborhoods is that every house looks the same and lacks character. I will be shocked if some of these homes that are being built will last 50-60 years. The last four homes that we purchased have been "old homes" that we gutted and redesigned. We enjoy the old trees, character and every house has a story.

 

[FarminCy]

We lived in an area built in the early 90s that was primarily older couples. Our kids loved it because they basically had 6 sets of grandparents. Their friends weren’t far away so it was easy. I’d take that over the complete chaos of kids everywhere of these new developments.

We moved 2 years ago and really miss that area. We still visit the past neighbors often. We moved to a house that was about 22 years old and we chose it because it was built with an older floor plan. Which meant it actually has rooms so we have a den, seperate kitchen, etc. The kids all have bedrooms upstairs and it’s a traditional layout which we were looking for. The wide open one room main floor concepts have never appealed to me.

 

[Tacoclone]

School districts are a big thing as well.

This plays the largest role by far. Take the Minneapolis area for example. Super nice areas close to downtown with very high home values, but not that many kids. This is due to other neighborhoods in the area paying much lower taxes that would go the the same school district making there less total funding for that school.
People would rather move to a place like Plymouth where the money is everywhere and the schools are supported by a larger and wealthier taxbase.