HS Basketball players going the pro route

[1UNI2ISU]

Interesting thought. I think Kobe would have been great regardless. He was such a hard worker that even MJ respected him after working out with him. He would not have had the rings in Charlotte, but he'd have been good and maybe left for a contender eventually.

Kobe is the closest thing to MJ in game style. Lebron is just so much bigger

Agreed completely.

Kobe and MJ are the two best ever because of that mentality.

One of my favorite hypotheticals is how LeBron would have handled 'LeBron Rules' from the Pistons or running into the 87 Celtics in the playoffs. It's a lot easier to project what Michael would have done today than what LeBron would have done then.

 

[cyhiphopp]

Agreed completely.

Kobe and MJ are the two best ever because of that mentality.

One of my favorite hypotheticals is how LeBron would have handled 'LeBron Rules' from the Pistons or running into the 87 Celtics in the playoffs. It's a lot easier to project what Michael would have done today than what LeBron would have done then.

Lebron is big enough that I think he would have been ok, but his style would have had to have been much different with physical rules. He's a tremendous athlete even as an older player. A lot of other current big scorers would have been put on their asses though.

 

[isucy86]

As soon as he was done playing he made millions. He got exposure by playing for Duke, being on a constant ESPN scroll the whole year and playing March Madness.

If he's playing for the Maine Red Claws instead he is an unknown to the general public. Exposure to the general public is what drives up value in endorsements.

His going to Duke vs. the G-League made him exponentially more valuable before he was drafted, and it's not an arguable point. Going into college he wasn't known by anybody outside of hardcore CBB fans that follow recruiting. He was the third highest recruit in Duke's class that season (Reddish and Barrett had more hype).

He got huge endorsements before even being drafted or playing an NBA game. He got massive media exposure by being at Duke. He was not at all a household name before playing at Duke. Far from it. And tearing up the G League doesn't get any attention by the public either. Look at the list of G-League ROY and POYs. Nobody became a household name by tearing up the G-League.

The only problem with your theory is Zion would have played in the NBA and not the Maine Red Claws if he jumped straight from HS to NBA. Zion was not some top 50 HS kid, he was a stud! And shoe companies and agents were drooling (aka dropping cash) over him before he stepped on Duke's campus.

Zion didn't need Duke, he would have cashed a big NBA paycheck and received tons of endorsement deals if he jumped to the NBA from HS. No different than Kobe or LeBron. So would most top 10-15 elite HS players in Zion's class.

 

[AuH2O]

The only problem with your theory is Zion would have played in the NBA and not the Maine Red Claws if he jumped straight from HS to NBA. Zion was not some top 50 HS kid, he was a stud! And shoe companies and agents were drooling (aka dropping cash) over him before he stepped on Duke's campus.

Zion didn't need Duke, he would have cashed a big NBA paycheck and received tons of endorsement deals if he jumped to the NBA from HS. No different than Kobe or LeBron. So would most top 10-15 elite HS players in Zion's class.

No, I’m arguing if the one year rule remains in existence a guy like Zion is better off going to Duke and building his brand than playing in the GL.

 

[madguy30]

No, I’m arguing if the one year rule remains in existence a guy like Zion is better off going to Duke and building his brand than playing in the GL.

The fact that ESPN still tried to make Duke/UNC a thing this past season when neither were very good shows exactly why someone like Zion would go there.

 

[isucy86]

No, I’m arguing if the one year rule remains in existence a guy like Zion is better off going to Duke and building his brand than playing in the GL.

The one and done rule may be gone by the 2022 draft if the NBA gets its way.

But even so, look at current NBA mock drafts. Two of the HS elite players from the 2020 class who played for the G-League Ignite team are pretty consensus top 6 picks and some mocks have Green going 2nd.

So while Cade Cunningham might have more of a name right now. All that changes once the NBA draft is over. Green will get paid his NBA salary and have marketing opportunities equal to Cunningham, Mobley, Suggs, etc.

Plus Green & Kumminga got paid (above board) to play during the 2020/21 season.

I just see the basketball development model changing. The NBA is going to want to be directly involved in post HS player development. Green is projected #2 because NBA insiders have worked with and observed him up close. IMO it is just a matter of 3-5 years before most top 25 HS players jump from HS to an NBA development league.

The money will be there. If there is money for all these AAU teams to travel the country from April to August- the NBA or an entity like Overtime Elite will find a way to be financially viable.

There is also an explosion of elite basketball prep schools being funded by shoe, etc. companies. The monies there and IMO the NBA is smart enough to make a minor league work.

If MLB teams can support a minor league product where players are at best 4-6 years from making it to the majors, the NBA can market a league where elite players are 1-3 years from an NBA roster.

 

[GrindingAway]

Some of the takes here are really bad. I get that people really like college basketball but there’s a lot of false here.

Zion was a huge brand before he got to Duke. Nike would have signed him at 16 if they could have legally (probably did in a way honestly)

It is correct Duke has way more games on ESPN than the G league but that’s because the talent is there. They don’t put G league games because no one wants to watch Naz (sorry Naz) play Tyler Cook. If Zion and the rest of the top twenty teams were in the G league then they would find their way onto TV.

Not to mention the one and done rule is going to have to go anyway. These other start ups taking talent is going to make the NBA change it. They don’t want to lose talent to these start ups. One of the drivers for the rule was the transition was too hard and it was too much of a gamble for NBA teams. Now that the G league is a much better league that isn’t as much of an issue.

From a development standpoint NBA trainers are much better than college and they have basically 24/7 access to the players vs limited contact in college. Look at the jump THT made when he got to the league. He wasn’t getting that development here (even with a different staff).

I love college basketball but right now it’s not the best route for elite talent and questionable that it is for even top 50 ish talent. We can put our head in the sand and say “but college basketball is the best route “ because it’s what we know and love or we can hope it evolves so it survives

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Some of the takes here are really bad. I get that people really like college basketball but there’s a lot of false here.

Zion was a huge brand before he got to Duke. Nike would have signed him at 16 if they could have legally (probably did in a way honestly)

It is correct Duke has way more games on ESPN than the G league but that’s because the talent is there. They don’t put G league games because no one wants to watch Naz (sorry Naz) play Tyler Cook. If Zion and the rest of the top twenty teams were in the G league then they would find their way onto TV.

Not to mention the one and done rule is going to have to go anyway. These other start ups taking talent is going to make the NBA change it. They don’t want to lose talent to these start ups. One of the drivers for the rule was the transition was too hard and it was too much of a gamble for NBA teams. Now that the G league is a much better league that isn’t as much of an issue.

From a development standpoint NBA trainers are much better than college and they have basically 24/7 access to the players vs limited contact in college. Look at the jump THT made when he got to the league. He wasn’t getting that development here (even with a different staff).

I love college basketball but right now it’s not the best route for elite talent and questionable that it is for even top 50 ish talent. We can put our head in the sand and say “but college basketball is the best route “ because it’s what we know and love or we can hope it evolves so it survives

Top 50 might be a stretch IMO. You get plenty of kids that bust at the college level after you get out of the top 20, let alone ones that would flame out early in the NBA. Before the one and done rule, there were kids jumping straight to the NBA that had no business doing so, and probably killed their careers/capped their potential because of it. Granted, this was also in the era prior to D/G League. I guess I'd like to see the one and done rule go away and agree that both college and pro ball would be better without it, I just don't think there are 50 kids each year that could make the jump straight to pro ball. Some type of middle ground, ie NIL reimbursement at the college level is necessary IMO, to at least preserve the college game as we know it and have loved it for decades.

 

[GrindingAway]

Top 50 might be a stretch IMO. You get plenty of kids that bust at the college level after you get out of the top 20, let alone ones that would flame out early in the NBA. Before the one and done rule, there were kids jumping straight to the NBA that had no business doing so, and probably killed their careers/capped their potential because of it. Granted, this was also in the era prior to D/G League. I guess I'd like to see the one and done rule go away and agree that both college and pro ball would be better without it, I just don't think there are 50 kids each year that could make the jump straight to pro ball. Some type of middle ground, ie NIL reimbursement at the college level is necessary IMO, to at least preserve the college game as we know it and have loved it for decades.

I didn’t mean top 50 jumping to the NBA. There’s not enough capacity for that. There’s plenty of capacity overseas though and places like Europe and Australia are much better at developing players than NCAA basketball plus they get paid

I’ll admit there’s a couple but issues with that route. 1) is an 18 year old mature enough to go that route? In many cases no. 2). The pipeline from EU and Australia back to the NBA is admittedly not the strongest

Most top 50 kids have the talent to make money playing basketball at some point. Those kids are faced with a reality of the options available to them to play college basketball is probably the worst regarding player development. It’s also the lowest in financial compensation for many of them and NIL probably won’t close that gap much.

 

[HFCS]

Duke didn't make Zion a damn thing. He made himself millions and made millions for CBB.

I agree that it's different by player and players like Zion bring way more to cbb than they get.

JoBo couldn't make jack as a 19 year old basketball player if not for the logo on his jersey. He's dead wrong about his particular situation. Like millions of miles from reality.

THT example of local player in the middle of that gigantic gap.

 

[HFCS]

How many guys have TRULY been ready to play in the NBA straight out of HS? Good enough to be worth a top 5 pick in the draft.

Kobe
Lebron
Kevin Garnett
Tracy McGrady
Dwight Howard


Amare Stoudemire
Jermaine Oneal
Andrew Bynum

Tyson Chandler
Rashard Lewis?


And a whole lot of guys who never even became all stars much less stars.

How many guys since Lebron have been REALLY ready to play right out of HS?

Chandler was real unpolished for a couple years. Curry on the same team was literally mentally unstable.

During that HS era guys like Jermaine ONeal often did better for their second team than draft team.

 

[heitclone]

How many guys have TRULY been ready to play in the NBA straight out of HS? Good enough to be worth a top 5 pick in the draft.

Kobe
Lebron
Kevin Garnett
Tracy McGrady
Dwight Howard


Amare Stoudemire
Jermaine Oneal
Andrew Bynum

Tyson Chandler
Rashard Lewis?


And a whole lot of guys who never even became all stars much less stars.

How many guys since Lebron have been REALLY ready to play right out of HS?

Moses Malone was the first guy but he technically went ABA, he isn't top 5 worthy but the one modern guy who has had a really good career that everyone seem to forget is Lou Williams. He is the most successful PG to make that jump. Shaun Livingston could easily be in that top group had he not been injured, I believe he went 4th overall.

 

[isucy86]

IMO the NBA would be wise to provide a well structured minor league system for post HS players before the one & done rule is rescinded.

Neither the NBA Office, NBA Players Union or owners want to pay big $ on players that end up being busts. IMO something like the following:

• Have a separate 3-4 round draft for players completing their high/prep school eligibility. Post high/prep school players can only be eligible for the development league and cannot go directly to the NBA.
• HS Players who play college basketball can enter the NBA/Development League Drafts after one year. The NBA draft would be before the Developmental League draft. So a college player who is not drafted by an NBA team, could be drafted to play in the developmental League.
• Developmental League would have 21 years old age limit. So there would still be a G-League.
• Initially have a 6-8 team development league. The teams are run by the NBA Office and are not franchise affiliated. So players are committed to the Development League and cannot move up to the NBA during the season.
• Each team would have 8-9 players to maximize playing time for all kids.
• Co-locate 2 teams in each city, so there is a group of 16-18 players who would practice together.
• Have a 3-4 round draft with fixed salary by draft round. IE $150,000 rounds 1 & 2 and $100,000 rounds 3&4. Have a team salary cap around $1.2M, so teams could have flexibility to pay returning players a bit more than prior year.
• Development League players can negotiatiate NIL agreements.

Also, the NCAA should provide a path where players who don't stick in the NBA or Developmental League can receive a scholarship and attend college/play college hoops. Have an age limit, something like 24 years and limit the number of former NBA players on a college roster to 2-3 players.

 

[GrindingAway]

Moses Malone was the first guy but he technically went ABA, he isn't top 5 worthy but the one modern guy who has had a really good career that everyone seem to forget is Lou Williams. He is the most successful PG to make that jump. Shaun Livingston could easily be in that top group had he not been injured, I believe he went 4th overall.

I might not be understanding but are you saying Moses Malone isn’t worthy of a top 5 draft pick?

 

[Rural]

Moses Malone was the first guy but he technically went ABA, he isn't top 5 worthy but the one modern guy who has had a really good career that everyone seem to forget is Lou Williams. He is the most successful PG to make that jump. Shaun Livingston could easily be in that top group had he not been injured, I believe he went 4th overall.

What?

 

[heitclone]

I might not be understanding but are you saying Moses Malone isn’t worthy of a top 5 draft pick?

No, sorry Lou Williams isn't top 5 worthy.

 

[cykadelic2]

The one and done rule may be gone by the 2022 draft if the NBA gets its way.

If MLB teams can support a minor league product where players are at best 4-6 years from making it to the majors, the NBA can market a league where elite players are 1-3 years from an NBA roster.

Not to mention the one and done rule is going to have to go anyway. These other start ups taking talent is going to make the NBA change it. They don’t want to lose talent to these start ups. One of the drivers for the rule was the transition was too hard and it was too much of a gamble for NBA teams. Now that the G league is a much better league that isn’t as much of an issue.

Contrary to being what's written, I don't think the NBA and NBAPA want to get rid of the one and done rule. It would be bad business for both parties.

The NBA minor league has existed for years and GLeague Ignite is the vehicle for them to recruit and train players out of HS. Their is no appetite or financial incentive for the NBA to expand their existing minor league system beyond that. And the NBA is certainly not losing talent that can actually play in the NBA to start ups.

Regarding THT, he is the rare exception of an underclassmen drafted in the 2nd round who may end up with a long term NBA career. Most do not and THT would have arguably been money ahead by playing another season at ISU, being a mid 1st round pick and locking in a guaranteed rookie contract similar to Haliburton.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

The NBA should just change the rule to what MLB does, allow a HS player to sign, if the kid goes to college he must stay 3 seasons. With the G league they would have a place for players to play and improve that are not ready for the NBA.
Gives college fans a chance to get to know the players before they are gone within a year or two under the current rule.

 

[Cycsk]

You forgot Daryl Dawkins

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[simply1]

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