Class 4A State Football Pairings

[jkclone]

There is quite a bit of past frustration in this complaint as well, but the IHSAA method of assigning brackets is so freaking bad. Specifically with this years football the only way I could come up with was they did it by 1 or 2 seed then ranked them by overall record, but that doesn't work because Lewis Central should have then played Centennial. My frustration is Urbandale seems to always play the top teams.This is the case in past years with the basketball tournament. With the basketball tournament I at least can understand the methodology for it.

I guess my point is that Urbandale historically plays incredibly difficult non-conference/district schedules. They seem to be punished for that. What can be done to make this work better? In the playoffs is it really necessary to separate the eastern side of the state. I know within the metro, at least my experience, the eastern half of the state is seen as a relative cakewalk. There are definitely good teams out there, but they don't have to play anyone. I'd like to see the eastern teams play the central and western teams. That could get new teams playing each other. In the case of 4A I don't think the expense is an issue. I get the issue of school, but you could play the games on Saturdays to eliminate that issue.

At the end of the day I'd like to see a better distribution of talent. The majority of good teams are in the metro and the state hasn't done a good job of representing that.

 

[ISUCubswin]

Really inspirational story having Dowling make it to state. Good to see them get a few breaks go there way.

*Rolls eyes*

I would really appreciate if IHSAA stepped in and did something about this.

I know you can't ban scholarships but there are ways to stopping this. For example, all private schools that offer scholarships become their own class when it comes to the postseason. The 1A, 2A, 3A private schools would stop doing this because they'd get **** stomped by the Dowlings and then forces Dowling and other big boy private schools to go to state against themselves every year.

 

[ISUEmbassy]

There is quite a bit of past frustration in this complaint as well, but the IHSAA method of assigning brackets is so freaking bad. Specifically with this years football the only way I could come up with was they did it by 1 or 2 seed then ranked them by overall record, but that doesn't work because Lewis Central should have then played Centennial. My frustration is Urbandale seems to always play the top teams.This is the case in past years with the basketball tournament. With the basketball tournament I at least can understand the methodology for it.

I guess my point is that Urbandale historically plays incredibly difficult non-conference/district schedules. They seem to be punished for that. What can be done to make this work better? In the playoffs is it really necessary to separate the eastern side of the state. I know within the metro, at least my experience, the eastern half of the state is seen as a relative cakewalk. There are definitely good teams out there, but they don't have to play anyone. I'd like to see the eastern teams play the central and western teams. That could get new teams playing each other. In the case of 4A I don't think the expense is an issue. I get the issue of school, but you could play the games on Saturdays to eliminate that issue.

At the end of the day I'd like to see a better distribution of talent. The majority of good teams are in the metro and the state hasn't done a good job of representing that.
View attachment 50989

I think it's human nature to assume the other half of the state "doesn't play anyone" when you don't read much or see those teams play regularly. I live in North Liberty (near IA City) and the sentiment is probably similar but in reverse here - thinking that there is Dowling and then everyone else that is okay. I'm sure that's not the case.

I definitely do not agree that the majority of talent is in central iowa. The east side has several very good teams - West High is outstanding, as is Cedar Falls. Haven't seen Bettendorf, but they are always very good. CR Prairie is good, I dont think elite though, this year. Wash is down from last year. Don't know anything about North Scott, or Davenport Central

 

[ISUEmbassy]

Really inspirational story having Dowling make it to state. Good to see them get a few breaks go there way.

*Rolls eyes*

I would really appreciate if IHSAA stepped in and did something about this.

I know you can't ban scholarships but there are ways to stopping this. For example, all private schools that offer scholarships become their own class when it comes to the postseason. The 1A, 2A, 3A private schools would stop doing this because they'd get **** stomped by the Dowlings and then forces Dowling and other big boy private schools to go to state against themselves every year.

Or could you make the private schools play other similar private schools from surrounding states? Pretty lopsided way it is currently.

 

[ISUCubswin]

I think it's human nature to assume the other half of the state "doesn't play anyone" when you don't read much or see those teams play regularly. I live in North Liberty (near IA City) and the sentiment is probably similar but in reverse here - thinking that there is Dowling and then everyone else that is okay. I'm sure that's not the case.

I definitely do not agree that the majority of talent is in central iowa. The east side has several very good teams - West High is outstanding, as is Cedar Falls. Haven't seen Bettendorf, but they are always very good. CR Prairie is good, I dont think elite though, this year. Wash is down from last year. Don't know anything about North Scott, or Davenport Central

I think historically, more of the talent is in central Iowa. The last year or two, those Eastern schools have really stepped it up and can actually compete. I've seen Cedar Falls and one of the Iowa City schools and both blew me away with their talent.

 

[Incyte]

Urbandale would get beat by most of the easrern iowa 4a teams in the playoffs IMO.

 

[jkclone]

I think it's human nature to assume the other half of the state "doesn't play anyone" when you don't read much or see those teams play regularly. I live in North Liberty (near IA City) and the sentiment is probably similar but in reverse here - thinking that there is Dowling and then everyone else that is okay. I'm sure that's not the case.

I definitely do not agree that the majority of talent is in central iowa. The east side has several very good teams - West High is outstanding, as is Cedar Falls. Haven't seen Bettendorf, but they are always very good. CR Prairie is good, I dont think elite though, this year. Wash is down from last year. Don't know anything about North Scott, or Davenport Central

See lets look at the facts though because it supports the metro having the talent. You mentioned Cedar Falls but they wouldn't be 8-1 if they played the central and western teams. They have played 1 team with a winning record. West is legitimately a really good team (probably 2 or 3 in the state). There are good teams in the eastern half of the state, but the weaker teams are much weaker. Urbandale has played 25% of the playoff teams.

 

[jkclone]

Urbandale would get beat by most of the easrern iowa 4a teams in the playoffs IMO.

They would crush the Cedar Rapids school and would have competitive games against all the others.

 

[ISUCubswin]

Urbandale would get beat by most of the easrern iowa 4a teams in the playoffs IMO.

Urbandale went 6-3.

1 of those 6 wins was against teams with a winning record. They had a cake walk.

 

[ISUCubswin]

See lets look at the facts though because it supports the metro having the talent. You mentioned Cedar Falls but they wouldn't be 8-1 if they played the central and western teams. They have played 1 team with a winning record. West is legitimately a really good team (probably 2 or 3 in the state). There are good teams in the eastern half of the state, but the weaker teams are much weaker. Urbandale has played 25% of the playoff teams.

Not saying you're wrong, but Cedar Falls is pretty damn talented. They're line could be mistaken for the UNI linemen. I think Dowling and Valley are the only two teams that could compete with them.

 

[zmanzbo]

Urbandale is not good. Get over it.

 

[stormchaser2014]

Iowa only does 16 teams for each division? We do 32.

 

[jkclone]

Not saying you're wrong, but Cedar Falls is pretty damn talented. They're line could be mistaken for the UNI linemen. I think Dowling and Valley are the only two teams that could compete with them.

Don't get me wrong they are a good team, but they are probably in line with a Lewis Central if they played in District 1-4.

 

[GMackey32]

See lets look at the facts though because it supports the metro having the talent. You mentioned Cedar Falls but they wouldn't be 8-1 if they played the central and western teams. They have played 1 team with a winning record. West is legitimately a really good team (probably 2 or 3 in the state). There are good teams in the eastern half of the state, but the weaker teams are much weaker. Urbandale has played 25% of the playoff teams.

Of Cedar Falls' non-conference games, they played 3 CIML schools, IC West, and Western Dubuque (only outlier). They beat Ames, Mason City, and Fort Dodge by a combined score of 172-14. Lost at IC West 32-31 in OT. #Facts

 

[ISUCubswin]

Man football needs to be fixed.

Ames High finished 4-5.

Two games were decided by 20 or less points

Two games were decided by 20 - 29 points

Three games were decided by 30 - 39 points

Zero games were decided by 40 - 49 points

Two games were decided by 50-59 points

 

[ISUCubswin]

Don't get me wrong they are a good team, but they are probably in line with a Lewis Central if they played in District 1-4.

Eh...no

Lewis Central is 8-1. Only 1 of their 8 wins is against a team with a winning record. That one team is Harlan, who isn't even in the same class.

In fact, the combined records of the teams they've beat in their own class is 16 - 47. That's probably the worst of any team in, and explains why they drew Valley.

 

[CyArob]

Sucks to suck, Urbandale

 

[michaelrr1]

Central Iowa has a couple of elite teams, a bunch of bottom feeders, and a handful of mediocre teams that pad their win total against the bottom feeders to inflate their win total. That doesn't make these teams "good". Somebody has to fill the gap between the top and the bottom. The level of teams just is not diversified enough to claim that central Iowa has many strong teams.

 

[ISUEmbassy]

See lets look at the facts though because it supports the metro having the talent. You mentioned Cedar Falls but they wouldn't be 8-1 if they played the central and western teams. They have played 1 team with a winning record. West is legitimately a really good team (probably 2 or 3 in the state). There are good teams in the eastern half of the state, but the weaker teams are much weaker. Urbandale has played 25% of the playoff teams.

Cedar Falls is legit. The team they lost to was West High and it was in overtime. Very few facts, lots of opinions. How many games from teams in east did you watch this year? I have been to every West game (son plays on the team), including the game vs SEP (crossover).

Dowling is elite elite. West is elite. Valley is traditionally elite, and this year my opinion is that Cedar Falls (not Rapids) could hang with everone but Dowling. Everyone else is good to really good.

West has potential rematch with Cedar Falls in the 2nd round, which could go either way. Oh well, that's how it goes. If they're good enough, they'll win and advance.

 

[benman82]

Edit: Avoiding rematches gets Valley playing Lewis Central.

District champions host games, so district champs will always play district runner ups in the first round. Also, you must play across districts round one, and they appear to have purposely made no district rematches in round 2 either. Urbandale is seeded #4 with the worst overall record of a district champion, while Dowling is #5 as the top seeded runner up. I did my best to figure out why the seedings were given, but I can't figure out any consistent rule that explains why Valley is playing (8-1) Lewis Central.

As close as I can guess the West half of state breakdown:
It looks to me that they seeded top four to district winners, and tiebreakers are overall record, then total +/- of scoring in district play (with a cap of 17 points per game either way).
#1 (8-1) 15.2 Johnston
#2 (8-1) 12.4 Valley
#3 (7-2) 14.2 Ankeny Centennial
#4 (6-3) 14.8 Urbandale
#5 (8-1) 13.0 Dowling
#6 (8-1) 12.4 Lewis Central
#7 (6-3) 11.6 Southeast Polk (no head to head w/ Waukee)
#8 (6-3) 11.0 Waukee (no head to head w/ SEP)

Johnston couldn't play Waukee as district foes, so they got procedurally bumped to play Southeast Polk. so 1-7 plays 4-5. Then Waukee gets another procedural bump to avoid a rematch with Valley. So now 2-6 matches up with 3-8. But then why doesn't Urbandale get a bump to avoid a rematch with Dowling? Well, they're the 4 seed and all the other higher seeded teams are set so they maybe they can't procedurally bump unless it's to avoid a district matchup. Also this would cause #1 seed Johnston to play #5 Dowling and you don't want to reward the #1 with Dowling.

However, this took a lot of effort to come up with any explanation, so I bet the real reason Valley plays Lewis Central is the subjective eye test. And they also don't want a Dowling Valley matchup until the dome. Valley seems to be the #1 seed by being listed at the top of the bracket, so should play 4/5 (Urbandale/Dowling). Seems pretty fishy to me.


http://www.iahsaa.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2017-FB-Post-Season-Manual.pdf (this unfortunately has no info on how the brackets are seeded)
https://www.iahsaa.org/secure/classstandings.php?year=2017&sport=fb&class=4A