Penn State University - The Freeh Report

[Mr Janny]

so if a kid severly injures a fellow student outside of say...a highschool... the highschool should do nothing about it?

not the same thing. High schools generally have rules against students injuring each other, so that would give them jurisdiction. That's not the case, here.

In this case, it would be like the CIML punishing Ankeny schools, athletically, for covering up that one of their coaches was committing mail fraud.

 

[twistedredbird]

If NCAA is looking for a door, my guess is they have one opening:

"the independent investigation led by Louis Freeh has honed in on, among other things, special treatment the athletic department sought for some university athletes"

Penn State Scandal: Louis Freeh Report Could Mean NCAA Action - SBNation.com

 

[jbhtexas]

It all comes down to this question. What NCAA rules has Penn State broken?

It appears to me that PSU has violated Article 2.4 of the NCAA Constitution, as described in the NCAA's letter to PSU, linked below.

NCAA.org

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect...ERES&CACHEID=cbc2ea804bf2ff9e99c199816c7ab605

 

[CysRage]

I can get behind this. Let the Big10 step in and punish Penn State. Bar their games from appearing on their broadcasts, refuse to let them play conference games, etc. The conference seems like a much more appropriate governing agent than the NCAA for this.

Pretty good article from Jon Miller. Miller: The Big Ten's B1G Dilemma: What to Do With Penn State? - HawkeyeNation Forum
He said one of the options could be to remove Penn State from the Big Ten. But I'm not sure. I was the football program that is the most guilty in all of this. Why punish all of the sports and school for the mistake of the football program? On the other hand, Spanier (regretfully an ISU grad) was president at the time and covered it up so it somewhat makes it an all university matter. It is just an overall terrible situation that nobody will win from. As stated in the Sports Illustrated article, the only thing good that comes out of this is every athletic department in the nation will now make sure this never happens again.

 

[Mr Janny]

Pretty good article from Jon Miller. Miller: The Big Ten's B1G Dilemma: What to Do With Penn State? - HawkeyeNation Forum
He said one of the options could be to remove Penn State. But I'm not sure. I was the football program that is the most guilty in all of this. Why punish all of the sports and school for the mistake of the football program? On the other hand, Spanier (regretfully an ISU grad) was president at the time and covered it up. It is just an overall terrible situation that nobody will win from. As stated in the Sports Illustrated article, the only thing good that comes out of this is every athletic department in the nation will now make sure this never happens again.

And my hope is that the state, the courts, and the department of education do all they can to punish PSU. The NCAA, however, is just a caboose on the train. This issue is so much bigger than them.

Here's a great article on the subject
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/coll...a-sanctions-could-be-next-for-penn-state.html

 

[CysRage]

And my hope is that the state, the courts, and the department of education do all they can to punish PSU. The NCAA, however, is just a caboose on the train. This issue is so much bigger than them.

Here's a great article on the subject
NCAA sanctions could be next for Penn State - Chicago Sun-Times

Without a doubt. It is a given that many lawsuits are on the way for Penn State but on the NCAA/Big Ten side of things, I have a feeling one or both will also punish Penn State. As I said in another thread, I originally stood behind Penn State and JoePa because I thought it was just negligence of reporting it to the proper authorities. After this new evidence, it wasn't just negligence, they tried to cover it up just to save the football program and school's image. That is just plain wrong and unethical. I see many million dollar lawsuits on the way to compensate the victims and families, revoking of wins since this all began, death penalty for PSU in football, and I seriously think PSU's membership in the Big Ten is now in danger. Everyone saw how last year no bowl wanted Penn State because the advertisers don't want to have anything to do with it (and that was before this new evidence). I don't see the Big Ten being any different.

 

[Gnomeborg]

These individuals (the AD and JoPa), unchecked by the Board of Trustees that did not perform its oversight duties, empowered Sandusky to attract potential victims to the campus and football events by allowing him to have continued, unrestricted and unsupervised access to the University’s facilities and affiliation with the University’s prominent football program. Indeed, that continued access provided Sandusky with the very currency that enabled him to attract his victims.

Tell me again how this isn't a football issue?

JoPa handed him the candy, gave him the keys to the panel van, and then handed him a package of wet-naps with a pat on the shoulder and never a second thought.

 

[TXCyclones]

Months back on this board when this broke I was extremely critical of everybody at PSU, but wasn't convinced that Joe Paterno had direct knowledge and was likely only at the periphery of this whole thing. I also commented to RibsnWhiskey that if it came out that Joe Paterno did know that I'd come on here and apologize publicly.

SO, I was wrong and I apologize to RibsnWhiskey. Joe Paterno is a piece of **** right along with the rest of that football administration who facilitated the rape of mulitple boys. I was wrong for doubting that Joe Paterno had full knowledge of the situation. I was wrong.

 

[rholtgraves]

I agree with what Jason Whitlock was saying this morning. The Freeh report really didn't show anything that people didn't already know. I mean, people already knew that all of these guys were told by McQueery what he witnessed and that none of them reported the incident. All the Freeh report is, is PSU trying to make themselves look better saying, look these are the guys that did wrong, we fired them, we are going to improve our system for reporting crimes, etc.

I will be shocked if any of the civil cases ever make it to trial.

 

[HILLCYD]

If the NCAA does nothing to this team, then the NCAA needs to cease to exist.

 

[CycloneErik]

Good points. But Baylor basketball got a modified death penalty when the coach covered up the facts about a murder. In my opinion, what Penn State did was 10x worse as their cover up directly led to dozens of additional children being molested.

This is such an extreme (and terrible) situation, I think the NCAA should intervene with massive penalties.

That's a good point. I'm surprised nobody posted that one sooner.

The fact that there is some sort of relative precedent here makes me believe that they can do something. A 2-year suspension or death penalty seems like a decent solution to focus on cleaning up the culture there.

 

[Mr Janny]

That's a good point. I'm surprised nobody posted that one sooner.

The fact that there is some sort of relative precedent here makes me believe that they can do something. A 2-year suspension or death penalty seems like a decent solution to focus on cleaning up the culture there.

It's not, a good comparison, though. look at the facts of the Baylor case. The NCAA was investigating violations related to players being paid. There was a clear violation of NCAA rules. There was no punishment for a crime, there.

 

[jbhtexas]

And my hope is that the state, the courts, and the department of education do all they can to punish PSU. The NCAA, however, is just a caboose on the train. This issue is so much bigger than them.

The NCAA is the locomotive. They are the only entity that can inflict any kind of meaningful punishment, and ultimately facilitate the demise of the football god culture at PSU that led to this horrible coverup.

The coverup of Sandusky's action was done for one reason, and that was to preserve the football (sports) program at PSU. The only way to properly punish PSU and change the culture there is to take away their football god. Take away the god and its support structure will crumble.

Any punishments that the criminal justice system can give to PSU will be ultimately inconsequential to PSU. All those entities can really do is prosecute individuals involved in the crimes. That won't change anything at PSU. The civil courts might be able to take PSU's money. That might slow down PSU, but it won't change anything.

As far making meaningful change at PSU, that's up to the NCAA. If the NCAA wants to give the death penalty to PSU FB, they can do it. If PSU doesn't like it they can challenge it in civil court. I wish PSU good luck with that.

 

[CLONECONES]

lets just say if the NCAA does nothing to Penn State... there will be a huge backlash

 

[rholtgraves]

The plan was changed and they were going to confront Sandusky and if he denied it then go tell the Board of Second Mile what they knew and report it to authorities. Well, the confronted Sandusky, the reported it to the board of Second Mile, but never went to authorities. Why didn't they? To protect the football program is the obvious answer, but it is an answer that doesn't make sense to me. If they would report this to authorities and come out and condemn Sandusky, ban him from premises, take away emeritus status, etc. They would have looked like they were protecting kids, doing the right thing and the University and Football program would have been much better off for it. It is just crazy to me. It just goes to show how irrational people can be in the face of a horrific situation. I mean the Janitor didn't report because he said he was afraid of being fired? Seriously, you think they would fire you for catching a child molester. Totally irrational thinking. McQueery, didn't call the police, and instead went to Paterno, totally crazy.

 

[jbhtexas]

It's not, a good comparison, though. look at the facts of the Baylor case. The NCAA was investigating violations related to players being paid. There was a clear violation of NCAA rules. There was no punishment for a crime, there.

In the Baylor case, the NCAA didn't need to invoke the ethics clauses surrounding the criminal activity because there were sufficient violations of other NCAA rules to inflict punishment on Baylor. Just because the NCAA didn't in that case doesn't mean they can't.

 

[CLONECONES]

. I mean the Janitor didn't report because he said he was afraid of being fired? Seriously, you think they would fire you for catching a child molester. Totally irrational thinking. McQueery, didn't call the police, and instead went to Paterno, totally crazy.

there's numerous reports saying Paterno woulda went ape**** if anyone did anything without his approval

 

[rholtgraves]

Baylor situation is totally different. Baylor coach was trying to cover up the fact that the player that murdered the other player was getting paid by Baylor's coach. He told players to lie about where he got the money to pay for his tuition, and to say that he was a drug dealer. And I don't think that was the only player that was getting paid. I beleive they also got in trouble for not turning in drug tests that revealed players were doing drugs or something of that sort.

 

[Mr Janny]

The NCAA is the locomotive. They are the only entity that can inflict any kind of meaningful punishment, and ultimately facilitate the demise of the football god culture at PSU that led to this horrible coverup.

The coverup of Sandusky's action was done for one reason, and that was to preserve the football (sports) program at PSU. The only way to properly punish PSU and change the culture there is to take away their football god. Take away the god and its support structure will crumble.

Any punishments that the criminal justice system can give to PSU will be ultimately inconsequential to PSU. All those entities can really do is prosecute individuals involved in the crimes. That won't change anything at PSU. The civil courts might be able to take PSU's money. That might slow down PSU, but it won't change anything.

As far making meaningful change at PSU, that's up to the NCAA. If the NCAA wants to give the death penalty to PSU FB, they can do it. If PSU doesn't like it they can challenge it in civil court. I wish PSU good luck with that.

hardly the locomotive. This goes far beyond their purview. This is something that needs to be handled by law enforcement, not some piddling, private athletic governing body. Let lawsuit after lawsuit be filed. Let charge after charge rack up. Let funding be witheld. The Cleary Act is far more important than any NCAA regulation.

 

[rholtgraves]

they're numerous reports saying Paterno woulda went ape**** if anyone did anything without his approval

He wasn't the boss of the janitors and I am sure had no interaction with them. This doesn't explain not reporting it. Paterno is not the Don Corleone here. If you excuse their not reporting then you have to excuse Spanier, Curley, Schultz, McQueary. None of them can be excused. They are all as much to blame as Paterno. The Board of the Second Mile is just as much to blame as well.