TJ bio . . .
- Thread starter CyValley
- Start date
How about Bill Self. And Shaka Smart. And 100 others I could list. I can play that game too.
Compare both of those coaches resumes before being hired by Iowa and ISU, and now compare that resume to TJ Otzelberger. Take some Rolaids before you start your research, will help with the heart burn.
I've become a TJ defender just out of my disdain for irrational and hypocritical thought more than out of my want of TJ as the next HC. It's going to be easier for me to get behind TJ than any other candidate CW has on his list. The guy has paid his dues at ISU and wants to stay here in our current situation with our "current" HC that is starting to ring with me more than anything else.
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Especially when that P5 school has top 10 talent. It's like handing the keys of a Lambo to a guy who's driven a Honda Civic his whole life.
I've become a TJ defender just out of my disdain for irrational and hypocritical thought more than out of my want of TJ as the next HC. It's going to be easier for me to get behind TJ than any other candidate CW has on his list. The guy has paid his dues at ISU and wants to stay here in our current situation with our "current" HC that is starting to ring with me more than anything else.
That was 20 years ago. Any more relevant examples? I'm sure you'd agree college basketball has changed quite a bit since then.
I am not even a JP hater, but let's not pretend he has been anything but abysmal at coaching hires.
He hired Fred for the same reason that Chewey added Grayer to the staff before he was able to offer Dougie to Creighton. All time greats, to buy time for **** situations that they created. Fred worked out far better than anyone could have hoped, but it was a rally the troops hire. Remember chews would have been back with that first roster that Fred had (woof) playing in front of 6000 people.
Fred is very talented, and I have no doubt that he can be successful in the NBA. But the way he has orchestrated leaving Iowa State is very reminiscent of his final game as a player at Hilton.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
The whole "wants to be here" thing stopped resonating with me years ago. Anyone wants to be at a place that's going to pay them head coaching money.
If they want to be here because no one else wants them, and that often seems to be the connection, then wanting to be here isn't that great a reference point for a job.
If they want to be here because no one else wants them, and that often seems to be the connection, then wanting to be here isn't that great a reference point for a job.
And yet they both failed. And a guy with a worse resume than TJ 5 years ago just took ISU to four straight tourneys.
Point is HC experience or no HC experience is not a good predictor of success or failure. There are plenty of cases to support every argument.
This. I don't get why people are taking sides in this argument. I'll say it again. This is ISU, every hire is going to be risky.
Agree!
Fred - No HC experience before ISU
TJ - No HC experience (not sure about JUCO, I didn't look it up)
Fred - No recruiting experience before ISU
TJ - Loads of recruiting experience and landing top talent for many years
Fred - No assistant HC experience
TJ - Lots of assistant HC experience
I have no problem with TJ taking over this program, in fact, I think I would prefer it at this point. There are plenty of "basketball minds" available for hire if needed (i.e. Lutz with Fred) to help him if needed for 1-2 years. Start with talent and work your way up from there. Hell, Frank Martin was laughed at when he took the KSU job, and he did quite well.
TJ will bring in the talent, there is no doubt about that IMO. I'll put my support behind him unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Still disappointed in feeling that Fred may have "played us" as a stepping stone, but oh well. Nothing we can do if he leaves.
Jeff Capel and Shaka Smart if you consider VCU a good enough program to be included in the same category as ISU. Frank Martin is another. I'm sure if I combed CBB I could find more.
Roy Williams, Tom Izzo, John Calipari, Dean Smith, Jim Boeheim, Mike Krzyzewski, John Thompson, etc.
Those are just off the top of my head. Also Brad Stevens, Mark Few.
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Any within the last 20 years???
I mean if you need to use Dean Smith as an example to justify TJ, you've lost the argument. Your Coach K example was 35 years ago!
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Capel was fired. And pre-Shaka VCU is no where on ISU's current level.
Frank Martin is a good example...hadn't thought about him.
Izzo is 20 years. Williams and Calipari are 25 years. And you have Brad Stevens and Mark Few. Ben Jacobson at UNI.
I can think of a lot more failures of guys like Licklighter and McDermott if you are looking for HC experience.
Ding, ding, ding.... we have a winner!
Who is Iowa State going to be able to go out and get that wouldn't be a "risky" hire? And don't say... Coach K. I said.... who can IOWA STATE go out and get?
JP is cheap for one thing. He isn't going to go out and offer someone more than what we were paying Fred. He is going to look at this like a cost saving move. I'm not saying that's right, but it's what JP does.
Now, if Hornacek is the least bit interested, then I think you have to offer him at LEAST what Fred was making and likely more. And IMO, you do it if he will take it.
Outside of Hornacek, I wouldn't be too confident with anyone else taking this job of all the names that have been thrown out there. TJ is as likely to do well here as any of them IMO, and maybe even more likely, since he has familiarity with the players, the style they like to play, etc.
Some argue you don't hand over a top 10 team like this to someone like TJ, but I would argue that's exactly who you hand it over to. If you don't want to ruin the good thing that you have going, then you try to keep as much continuity as you can IMO.
I really like Otz and I'll be ok with him as the new hire as it appears we're being prepared for. But I don't see the upside Fred brought simply because of Fred's NBA credentials and his icon status as an ISU athlete. Otz has good experience as an assistant but I can't really remember us ever hiring an assistant with no head coaching experience before. Doesn't mean it can't work out great, but there is obviously more risk.
