Proposal to significantly change the way Iowa high schools are classified for football

[Pope]

I was watching the local news today and they had a very interesting story on a proposal to change the way Iowa high schools are classified for football competition.

It's been shown there's a clear disadvantage for schools that have a large Free and Reduced Lunch (FRL) population when it comes to football competition. For example, until Roosevelt upset Waukee last season, the Des Moines public schools had lost 160+ consecutive games against the suburban schools.

So the proposal is to subtract 40% of the school's FRL enrollment from the school's total enrollment for purposes of classifying the school for football competition. I'm thinking that could mean schools like Des Moines East could be playing schools like Bondurant or Norwalk in football.

Apparently, 80% of the Iowa high schools surveyed are in favor of this proposal. I haven't thought it through very carefully, but I think I'd be in favor as well.

 

[ISUTex]

I was watching the local news today and they had a very interesting story on a proposal to change the way Iowa high schools are classified for football competition.

It's been shown there's a clear disadvantage for schools that have a large Free and Reduced Lunch (FRL) population when it comes to football competition. For example, until Roosevelt upset Waukee last season, the Des Moines public schools had lost 160+ consecutive games against the suburban schools.

So the proposal is to subtract 40% of the school's FRL enrollment from the school's total enrollment for purposes of classifying the school for football competition. I'm thinking that could mean schools like Des Moines East could be playing schools like Bondurant or Norwalk in football.

Apparently, 80% of the Iowa high schools surveyed are in favor of this proposal. I haven't thought it through very carefully, but I think I'd be in favor as well.

If it makes private schools play up I'm for it. I mean, the DSM schools will still lose dang near every game by 40-50 pts to Norwalk and Bondurant, but hey, as long as we try.

 

[isucy86]

Heard this morning that the proposal was approved- it sounded like by 70% of the schools. They mentioned the rule was modeled after Minnesota's.

I haven't seen a list of schools impacted. Not sure if will have much of an impact unless it encourages more kids to come out for football at schools that are historically bad.

IMO encouraging consolidation of schools might be a better equalizer (aka allowing Hoover & Roosevelt to have a joint team).

 

[KidSilverhair]

It’s an interesting idea (and it mirrors what Minnesota already does), at least it’s an attempt to address some competitive problems, but I doubt it will have that big of an effect. People have plugged the numbers into the current BEDS, and I think only two 5A programs would move down into the 4A range - Des Moines North and Sioux City West would compete in 4A, with Iowa City Liberty and Indianola replacing them in 5A.

This isn’t complete, of course, the FRL numbers for private schools haven’t been reported and that might move one or two other schools down in various classes, but this isn’t going to “fix” things. CR Jefferson and DM East and Lincoln will still be playing 5A, Perry might drop to 3A but they’re still going to be terrible … there might be a little more movement in 2A/1A/A, but this isn’t a magic bullet. Still, it’s good that the IHSAA is trying to do something.

 

[ISUTex]

It’s an interesting idea (and it mirrors what Minnesota already does), at least it’s an attempt to address some competitive problems, but I doubt it will have that big of an effect. People have plugged the numbers into the current BEDS, and I think only two 5A programs would move down into the 4A range - Des Moines North and Sioux City West would compete in 4A, with Iowa City Liberty and Indianola replacing them in 5A.

This isn’t complete, of course, the FRL numbers for private schools haven’t been reported and that might move one or two other schools down in various classes, but this isn’t going to “fix” things. CR Jefferson and DM East and Lincoln will still be playing 5A, Perry might drop to 3A but they’re still going to be terrible … there might be a little more movement in 2A/1A/A, but this isn’t a magic bullet. Still, it’s good that the IHSAA is trying to do something.

How is that fair to Indianola or Liberty?

 

[isucy86]

If it makes private schools play up I'm for it. I mean, the DSM schools will still lose dang near every game by 40-50 pts to Norwalk and Bondurant, but hey, as long as we try.

Doesn't sound like it will make private schools play up. More like move lower economic schools down.

Not sure the specifics of the rule, but there is a misconception EVERY kid going to private schools is rich. Information from the Archdiocese of Dubuque mentions around 36% of students receive some level of tuition assistance. The Dubuque Diocese includes: Dubuque, Cedar Rapids, Waterloo, Ames, Mason City and small town Catholic schools around those towns.

 

[cyfanatic]

Here is a "what-if" scenario if these rules would be applied to the 2021-2022 cycle:

Dropbox - Link Expired - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

How it would impact the Cedar Rapids area:

IHSAA approves socioeconomic factor to be instituted for football classification

Prep football: IHSAA approves socioeconomic factor to be instituted for football classification. First developed in Minnesota, the factor is free and reduced lunches. If member schools and Iowa Board of Education pass the amendment, it will go into effect next fall.

www.thegazette.com

 

[ISUTex]

Doesn't sound like it will make private schools play up. More like move lower economic schools down.

Not sure the specifics of the rule, but there is a misconception EVERY kid going to private schools is rich. Information from the Archdiocese of Dubuque mentions around 36% of students receive some level of tuition assistance. The Dubuque Diocese includes: Dubuque, Cedar Rapids, Waterloo, Ames, Mason City and small town Catholic schools around those towns.

I guess Im against it then. Looks like it will screw over some public schools by moving them up just so poor little DSM schools might have a chance to lose most of their games by 20 instead of 40. That way, all of those magical kids who aren't playing football will decide to go out and "bam". Hoover is playing toe to toe with Ankeny.

Also, do schools have to move down? Does a school have to move down to 8 man? That would suck.

 

[AuH2O]

How is that fair to Indianola or Liberty?

Somebody’s got to be the smallest in the class. No different than the other 900ish BEDS teams at the bottom of 5A playing all the 1200-2100 teams.

Not really any different than the bottom 4A teams that are almost half the size as Liberty or Indianola playing them.

That’s realty for teams around the edges. The BEDS FRL adjustment is going to move some teams up and some down. I’m guessing the schools at the top end of their classes were some of those against the adjustment for that reason.

 

[cyfanatic]

I guess Im against it then. Looks like it will screw over some public schools by moving them up just so poor little DSM schools might have a chance to lose most of their games by 20 instead of 40. That way, all of those magical kids who aren't playing football will decide to go out and "bam". Hoover is playing toe to toe with Ankeny.

The Des Moines public schools aren't impacted at all...one Davenport school and one Sioux City school each get moved down...so this "change" isn't much of a change at all! Nice headlines though...makes it sound like that organization is attempting to address inequalities that may exist in public schools.

 

[isucy86]

The Des Moines public schools aren't impacted at all...one Davenport school and one Sioux City school each get moved down...so this "change" isn't much of a change at all! Nice headlines though...makes it sound like that organization is attempting to address inequalities that may exist in public schools.

IMO participation is the biggest issue for chronically weak programs. When I lived in DSM, I would go to a lot of Valley & Dowling Catholic games. The DM Public Schools would have around 30 players on their roster while Valley and Dowling Catholic would have closer to 80. Tough to win will small roster size.

 

[ISUTex]

The Des Moines public schools aren't impacted at all...one Davenport school and one Sioux City school each get moved down...so this "change" isn't much of a change at all! Nice headlines though...makes it sound like that organization is attempting to address inequalities that may exist in public schools.

You're right. It won't do a thing to address the actual problem. But whatever.

 

[ISUTex]

Somebody’s got to be the smallest in the class. No different than the other 900ish BEDS teams at the bottom of 5A playing all the 1200-2100 teams.

Not really any different than the bottom 4A teams that are almost half the size as Liberty or Indianola playing them.

That’s realty for teams around the edges. The BEDS FRL adjustment is going to move some teams up and some down. I’m guessing the schools at the top end of their classes were some of those against the adjustment for that reason.

The gap between Valley/SE Polks and Liberty/Indianolas is around 1,000 students. The gap between the top 4A and small 4A is around 400 students.

 

[AuH2O]

Doesn't sound like it will make private schools play up. More like move lower economic schools down.

Not sure the specifics of the rule, but there is a misconception EVERY kid going to private schools is rich. Information from the Archdiocese of Dubuque mentions around 36% of students receive some level of tuition assistance. The Dubuque Diocese includes: Dubuque, Cedar Rapids, Waterloo, Ames, Mason City and small town Catholic schools around those towns.

Well, Level of income to qualify for a partial tuition assistance at a Catholic school is likely considerably higher than the FRL thresholds. So the Catholic schools in that diocese are likely VERY low in terms of FRL. But I do believe that they probably aren’t much different than SEP, Ankeny, etc. in terms of socioeconomic status.

It’s pretty binary in Iowa at the large schools. Seems like it’s either really well off schools or dirt poor. There are the few Ames, Urbandale, CR Kennedy schools in between, but most seem to be one extreme or the other.

 

[AuH2O]

The gap between Valley/SE Polks and Liberty/Indianolas is around 1,000 students. The gap between the top 4A and small 4A is around 400 students.

The Valley outlier aside, Liberty will be about half the size of the others at the top. Right now the bottom of 4A is about half the size of Liberty. Not much difference, and a better comparison than the absolute number.

Unless we add 3-4 more classes there are going to be big gaps. Somebody’s going to be the biggest and somebody’s going to be the smallest.

 

[ISUTex]

The Valley outlier aside, Liberty will be about half the size of the others at the top. Right now the bottom of 4A is about half the size of Liberty. Not much difference, and a better comparison than the absolute number.

Unless we add 3-4 more classes there are going to be big gaps. Somebody’s going to be the biggest and somebody’s going to be the smallest.

Sure, but there is a difference between being able to find football players while having 800-1000 more kids than only having 400 more.

Doesn't really matter. The schools who get to move down because they have more kids on FRL will still be terrible, and will still get poor participation numbers.

 

[BCClone]

I think you will see a push by schools to get people to file for free and reduced lunches much harder with this. I know several rural schools that have people who would qualify per income tax returns but don't apply since income tax returns are many times some of the greatest fiction documents out there. Every person who has been self-employed most likely has qualified for them at some time, but most will never apply due to pride and/or responsibility

 

[Gonzo]

I don't see this doing much. I wish they'd install a rule that says if you win the state title, you're automatically bumped up a class the next year. Sick of seeing the exact same schools dominate their class and play for the title every single year.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

I know it's not Iowa, but take a look at East St. Louis, Illinois high school football, and then make the argument kids on FRL programs can't compete.

This is not the way to do it and really getting to be a tiring way of how academia in this state looks at those of "lesser" means.

They should just submit and say poor little children and give every kid in the metro a free lunch. Then, they could play 8 man ball and maybe score a touchdown.

I mean why reach for the sky when it's easier to just settle for the floor.

 

[isucy86]

I don't see this doing much. I wish they'd install a rule that says if you win the state title, you're automatically bumped up a class the next year. Sick of seeing the exact same schools dominate their class and play for the title every single year.

But isn't that true at most levels of sport regardless of gender? UConn women have been great for 30 years. Kansas basketball has been elite for nearly 30 years. How about Ohio State football. What about Nebraska volleyball.

Sure economics plays a part. But IMO at the HS level it is more about the coach and the development system they create in the community. Harlan football has been great forever- should they be bumped up? Madrid had a great run.