Officials tonight in Tulsa

Discussion in 'Mens Basketball' started by MuskieCy, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. madguy30

    madguy30 Well-Known Member

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    That's basically a completely different scenario since the result Friday night was largely due to ISU playing like they had for large parts of the entire season.

    Blaming the refs is such a go-to for some without acknowledging other variables.
     
  2. madguy30

    madguy30 Well-Known Member

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    Also if I have the ball and dribble around for 10 seconds and decide to force myself into the lane and flop around and turn the ball over or throw up a terrible shot, I can't blame the refs.
     
  3. CycloneWanderer

    CycloneWanderer Well-Known Member

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    #23 CycloneWanderer, Mar 25, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
    I have never understood whitewashing poorly officiated games because players could have played better. That will always be true because you can't play a perfect game when you have a competent opponent.

    There will always be opportunities for players to have played better, even when they win by 30. Blaming people for a loss is dumb for us as fans anyways. We can't change the result. I will let the coaches and players focus on what they do for next time.

    I do know that the last time we played OSU in the tournament we got screwed by poor officiating. This time we got screwed by poor officiating. Will we get screwed by poor officiating next time we play OSU in the tournament?

    I am getting to the point that I struggle to trust basketball official. It is too easy for them to influence games and there is not enough transparency with how oversight is handled. Leagues seem like they are doing everything they can to prevent transparent oversight.
     
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  4. CYDJ

    CYDJ Active Member

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    I do agree with you in a way. We SHOULD have played better. It appears they were not ready for the game the kind of game the officials were going to allow. We should be ready for this, we should expect it really.

    But, how much better than the other team do you have to be to account for bad officiating? Do you have to be able to beat the opponent and only one bad call? Three bad calls? Do you have to be able to beat the opponent and an officiating style that is overly allowable because that is what the big guy is dictating? Do you have to, on-the-spot, relearn how to guard a post player that is displacing your legally held position while not fouling? WHILE, when you do the same thing on the other end it is called a foul on you?

    We didn't lose the game by 27, 17 or even 7 points. We lost by 3. A small margin in a game where officiating was questionable from a standards AND blown call perspective.

    The question I have is HOW much better do you HAVE to play to account for bad officiating. Because the officials accounted for at least that margin by themselves. Let alone killing our momentum and providing space for OSU to comfortably play with a lead.

    Face it, officials are as fallible as the players and coaches. What I am saying is that you should only have to be better than the other team by 1 point. What you are saying is that you have to be better than the other team by one point PLUS some officiating margin. You want "better" playing and coaching, I want "better" officiating. If it is so darn hard to do, maybe we should look at figuring out how to make it easier or changing the way we officiate our sports.
     
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  5. madguy30

    madguy30 Well-Known Member

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    Bolded: The officiating had nothing to do with poor fundamentals in rebounding and offensive selfishness. Those were habits the team established long before Friday. That's on them.

    The expectation should be a tight game, and being sound in the closing moments instead of flailing around and turning the ball over.
     
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  6. CYDJ

    CYDJ Active Member

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    Your logic here is off. OSU scored 62 points, so what? Games are all different, everyone goes through times of not scoring AND scoring and playing well and not playing well, so what? Some games are low scoring, some are high scoring. Nobody cares how much you score as long as it is one more than the other guy. Yes, we did not play a great game, or even a good game, I give you that. But, neither did OSU. Does that mean we are OK with having bad calls help determine the outcome of the game? IF we had played a great game, would you then be upset with the calls that may have helped determine the final outcome? Is that what is takes to get the ref apologists to get upset about THEIR bad performance?

    What you are saying is that the game is "legitimate" when the officials do a poor job. That whatever team loses just should have played better to account for something they can't control, that affects the way they play, and for that matter, WHO is playing directly. I just don't accept that reasoning. We need to do something about officiating. It is hard and it is only going to get harder and we need to change the way it is done. Period.
     
  7. jctisu

    jctisu Active Member

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    Again, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you or anyone ragging on the officials. The point is (and in my life this has been how I have looked at things and has truly helped me because I used to be a blame everyone else other than me type of person) control what you can control. We are known for having a good offense, and guess what? We didn't play well on offense for the majority of that game. It's not like we played even an average game on offense. Had we done that and still lost by what happened with the officiating, then I would have more qualms with the officials. But again, we did not play like a team that deserved to win a NCAA Tournament game. We scored 59 points. 59. Yes that could have been 61 with the run-out we should have had on the Haliburton steal they called a kicked ball, but even then that's way below our average. Ohio State only gave up under 60 twice in Big Ten play this year. Once to Indiana and the other to mighty Northwestern. They weren't a bad defensive team, but they weren't even close to Texas Tech or Kansas State defensively, and we managed 68 and 78 AT Lubbock and AT Manhattan. Sorry, but if we even have a pulse during that 1st Half stretch where we couldn't do anything right (15 straight possessions with missed shots and three really dumb turnovers) we win that game by double digits most likely.
     
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  8. CYDJ

    CYDJ Active Member

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    I agree with your point here. We should have played better, we should have better fundamentals, we should be mentally stronger, etc. etc. I will agree, I was as frustrated with the play on the court as I was with the officials. But, think about this one thing.

    We should have had less turnovers. Well, in reality, we did have at least one less turnover, but the officials "caught" one.

    We should have had more steals, we depend on transition for our game. Well, in reality, we did, but the officials "caught" a kick.

    We should have been ready to play strong D on a big man. We did, but the officials allowed him to literally push people out of their legally held positions on rebounds and under his own basket. The officials are supposed to stop "advantage" gained through the breaking of the rules, but they didn't allowing their big man to stay on the floor and gain advantage because of his size and style of play. Meanwhile, when we tried to do something about his "strong" playing in this "let them play" game, we got called for fouls AND had to sit people because of it.

    OK, so now that you are asking for "better" from our team, can you agree that I can ask for "better" from the officials? I'm not saying that we played great, that obviously isn't the case. But, for some reason our bad play matters, but the officials bad job doesn't? Please.
     
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  9. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Well-Known Member

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    Huh, you don't say? ;)
     
  10. jctisu

    jctisu Active Member

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    Sorry, and I am going to be blunt about this, but that attitude you are displaying is that of a loser, not a winner. Control what you can control. I guarantee you if you got each of the players to truly open up about the game they would all say "the officiating was frustrating and not good honestly, but in the end, we played like absolute crap on offense for a quarter of the game and couldn't string anything together. We also could have grabbed one more of those rebounds late that gave Ohio State extra possessions in which they scored on."

    But go ahead and keep blaming the officials only for this loss. I will counter with what you said about Ohio State not playing that well either. You're right, they didn't, but then that's even more of an indictment on our guys. We were the more talented and better team, and probably beat them 7 or 8 times out of 10. So the fact Ohio State played pretty meh other than Wesson is even more frustrating we still lost. Had you told me we held them to 62 before the game, I would have said we win that game by at least 5 or 6. Control what you can control. I am out.
     
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  11. spinback32

    spinback32 Member

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    It's a coping mechanism for people to not blame officials. It's super weird, but, it's what they do. Officials aren't the only reason ISU lost, but, they were definitely a large factor.

    I'm a huge believer in putting 3 or 4 25 year olds out there with some training to call these games. By the time these officials go through the "ladder" of becoming an NCAA referee, they are already too old to see what's going on.
     
  12. CycloneWanderer

    CycloneWanderer Well-Known Member

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    We're fans, bud. We can't control anything in these situations.

    People sometimes have an off night because they are people. It happens and is what makes the tournament interesting. That said, there are some officiating abhorrence that many people like you are willing to overlook because heaven forbid someone blame officials for officiating poorly. It's not just us, either. There were 4-5 egregious non-calls that benefited Duke against UCF in the closing minute yesterday. At what point does the quality of officials drop so much that something has to change?
     
  13. ComCY

    ComCY Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone have a video/gif of one of their last 3s that they made... where Wesson full on hockey cross-checked our player trying to run out to contest?
     
  14. CycloneWanderer

    CycloneWanderer Well-Known Member

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    You're losing the conversation right now because you can't just control what others think. (You do yourself no favors by insulting him if you are trying to influence his beliefs.)

    In the real world there are usually multiple contributing factor to any failure. Very rarely is there one single person/thing at fault. I want the players/coaches to focus on what they can control directly. That's the best path for them to get better. There is a common factor of poor officiating across college basketball right now (both men's and women's and across divisions). That's a problem for the integrity of the game and should be an item of concern for all basketball fans.

    The more acceptable error there is in officiating the easier it is for corruption to at best go unnoticed and at worst be covered up by those in power. This will only grow in importance as sports betting becomes more legally accepted. (There are studies showing the more money there is in a sports system the more susceptible to corruption it becomes.)
     
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  15. F5cy

    F5cy Well-Known Member

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    I'd just like to know how the official that was involved in two games this season where there was a bucket counted that shouldn't have (and was highly publicized because it changed the outcome of bets) was allowed to officiate in the NCAA Tournament.

    I thought the NCAA announced they would be reviewing all such baskets so as to alleviate the possibility of that happening in the post-season. If so, one of the officials who was responsible for that rule change is considered good enough to call post-season games?
     
  16. moores2

    moores2 Well-Known Member

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    You can't tell me that officials didn't have a huge impact on UCF against Duke. They played great and Duke not so much. Letting Zion literally push his defender out of the way on the way to the basket and calling a pretty weak call on Taco at the hoop allowed them to win that game. Sure did UCF maybe not make a 3 somewhere, maybe, but they deserved to win that game.
     
  17. madguy30

    madguy30 Well-Known Member

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    Not saying officials didn't matter...but it didn't decide the outcome of the game. Those are single occurrences while ISU did those things all game long in addition to huge scoring droughts due to selfish play.

    But if making it seem like ISU just never gets the calls and that's why they lose is what works for you, go for it.
     
  18. madguy30

    madguy30 Well-Known Member

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    UCF player flopped and his feet were moving.

    If they were going to call Zion for that, they need to call it for much worse in other games.
     
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  19. clonebb

    clonebb Well-Known Member

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    The kicked ball was a 5 point swing, so hell yes it cost us.
     
  20. theshadow

    theshadow Well-Known Member

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    Moving feet does not matter. You can be in a legal guarding position and still move your feet. The offensive player dipping a shoulder and extending the off arm has been an automatic offensive foul pretty much all season.
     
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