Charging Article - The Ringer

[MNCyGuy]

Got a chuckle out of who The Ringer decided to use as Exhibit A for eliminating charges from the NBA. Nice to know some things don't change.

https://theringer.com/ban-charges-from-basketball-71bc989fdfff#.a452h0uyh

 

[DSMCy]

Ha Marcus Smart is/was the worst. Should have included a little picture of rosy cheeked Aaron Craft too.

I'm all for eliminating charges like Titus outlines. Force secondary defenders to make a play rather than just jump to a spot and let the offensive player, who's already at full speed, plow into them and get rewarded.

 

[MNCyGuy]

Ha Marcus Smart is/was the worst. Should have included a little picture of rosy cheeked Aaron Craft too.

I'm all for eliminating charges like Titus outlines. Force secondary defenders to make a play rather than just jump to a spot and let the offensive player, who's already at full speed, plow into them and get rewarded.

I love Titus, but there is no way he would throw a fellow Buckeye under the bus, even if they did deserve it.

 

[cyclonespiker33]

So if there are no charges, Lebron can run over everyone without getting an offensive foul? Or will it be a blocking foul on the defense?

 

[MNCyGuy]

So if there are no charges, Lebron can run over everyone without getting an offensive foul? Or will it be a blocking foul on the defense?

This seems to be the main complaint I've seen in the comments and...I really hate being 'did you actually read the article' guy, but did you actually read the piece? It's not that offensive fouls would disappear, just that intentionally setting yourself in the path of the ball handler with no intention of making an actual defensive play on the ball would not result in being rewarded with a charge.

 

[cyclonespiker33]

This seems to be the main complaint I've seen in the comments and...I really hate being 'did you actually read the article' guy, but did you actually read the piece? It's not that offensive fouls would disappear, just that intentionally setting yourself in the path of the ball handler with no intention of making an actual defensive play on the ball would not result in being rewarded with a charge.

If you're saying a guy can't undercut someone going to the basket, okay, that's already the rule. What about a guy that is standing in one spot, outside of the circle, for 2 seconds and then gets run over? That's acceptable? The defense has every right to be somewhere on the court without being forcibly moved, just like the offense.

 

[MNCyGuy]

If you're saying a guy can't undercut someone going to the basket, okay, that's already the rule. What about a guy that is standing in one spot, outside of the circle, for 2 seconds and then gets run over? That's acceptable? The defense has every right to be somewhere on the court without being forcibly moved, just like the offense.

If a player was in place for 2 seconds and the offensive player initiates contact, I think you could assume that either A) The offensive player was out-of-control and there would still be grounds for an offensive foul, or B) The defensive player could reasonably be expected to actually attempt a defensive play.

 

[cyclonespiker33]

So let's change the name of charging to offensive foul, problem solved

 

[jbindm]

I agree that flopping is a problem, but I don't think this works much better than the current system. It's not going to stop the bang bang sequences that happen so frequently now. The players are too big and too fast. It's a little like the PI call in football...strictly a judgment call that happens so fast that you can't really expect any ref to get it right all the time. And unless you want to make everything reviewable, there isn't a good alternative.

 

[cydsho]

The rare and ellusive double flop.......

 

[jbindm]

The rare and ellusive double flop.......

Never gets old. Kane was such a beast.

 

[DSMCy]

I agree that flopping is a problem, but I don't think this works much better than the current system. It's not going to stop the bang bang sequences that happen so frequently now. The players are too big and too fast. It's a little like the PI call in football...strictly a judgment call that happens so fast that you can't really expect any ref to get it right all the time. And unless you want to make everything reviewable, there isn't a good alternative.

The article lays this out really well, but the way it improves the current system is:
1. The ref has less to think about and look at for these bang bang plays.

..determine whether a defender was standing outside the restricted area, whether he moved his feet, whether he established position before the offensive player started his upward motion, and all the other factors that go into making block/charge calls the hardest thing for refs to get right.

All the ref has to do is determine if the defender made a play at the ball, or if they just stood there waiting for contact.

2. Gives the benefit back to the offensive player for beating his defender.
If an offensive player is in control, beats his man to the basket, why should a secondary defender get rewarded for sliding in the path of the offensive player? The secondary defender makes no attempt to steal the ball or alter the shot. They just stand there waiting to fall down.

For #2, again Titus makes it clear that LeBron can't just run people over, that's still an offensive foul.

 

[Doc]

Got a chuckle out of who The Ringer decided to use as Exhibit A for eliminating charges from the NBA. Nice to know some things don't change.

https://theringer.com/ban-charges-from-basketball-71bc989fdfff#.a452h0uyh

I've been arguing for this for years. If you aren't in position to defend the ball, you shouldn't be rewarded, especially as a help defender. I understand defense is played as a team rather than a bunch of 1-on-1 matchups, but you are HELPING for a reason, and you shouldn't be given the advantage.

I'd settle for measures that reduce the viability of taking a charge in transition and after the offensive player has made a pass. If a player has made a pass and you're standing there waiting for him, you are not playing fundamental defense anymore. Also, you should NEVER be able to take a charge when the offensive player is in the air and on his way down -- that's being rewarded for just standing there, not being in position.

 

[Doc]

The article lays this out really well, but the way it improves the current system is:
1. The ref has less to think about and look at for these bang bang plays.

All the ref has to do is determine if the defender made a play at the ball, or if they just stood there waiting for contact.

2. Gives the benefit back to the offensive player for beating his defender.
If an offensive player is in control, beats his man to the basket, why should a secondary defender get rewarded for sliding in the path of the offensive player? The secondary defender makes no attempt to steal the ball or alter the shot. They just stand there waiting to fall down.

For #2, again Titus makes it clear that LeBron can't just run people over, that's still an offensive foul.

I think it would make the calls more subjective, but it was also make them easier for refs to make.

 

[Doc]

Would like to hear the opinion of @brentblum

 

[MNCyGuy]

I think it would make the calls more subjective, but it was also make them easier for refs to make.

And in theory, if you remove the incentive, it should make the kind of play where that call is necessary much more rare.

 

[jackrabbit21]

The great thing is there is basketball being played all over the world right now that already has these rules – pickup ball. When have you ever played in a pickup game when someone actually drew an offensive foul on a block/charge play? In the extremely rare instance when someone tries to do this, my experience is that the foul is always on the defense (after all, he didn’t try to make a “basketball play”). And the other players all laugh or look at the defensive player in a way that says “what are you doing, dude? There’s no charges in pick up ball!”.