Bubu Thread

BallSoHard4Cy

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Also: ISU had a way out with having the courts force upon them the reinstatement of Bubu. There's definitely a reason they're fighting so hard to get him off the team.
 

klamath632

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

For the love of.......basketball is not a civil right!

For **** sake. "A civil right is an enforceable right or privilege, which if interfered with by another gives rise to an action for injury."

The court agreed that Palo was injured by the University's action, and overturned the action. It's black and white, man.
 

isufbcurt

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Sexual Misconduct, Sexual Assault, and Sexual Harassment Involving Students | Policy Library

A prior relationship or prior sexual activity is not sufficient to demonstrate consent.

While true. Consenting during the act, then feeling guilty about it the next day when your current boyfriend finds out to the point of lying about what happened and ripping your own clothes for evidence doesn't make it non-consensual.
 

CycloneWanderer

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

This is why you don't allow it to involve the freaking BoR unless you are absolutely certain you are in the right. Blame Leathe for taking so ******** long to decide on the matter. I have little to no respect for the Iowa BoR.
 
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CapnCy

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

You can't be serious, right?

What does Hoiberg tell recruits that ask him what will happen to them if they break up with a chick while at ISU and she falsely claims they raped her? Will Iowa State support me, or will they do to me what they did to Bubu Palo?

And if this leads to Hoiberg not being able to get good recruits to come here because they don't feel they will be supported here, and the team falls flat on it's face, do you think Fred is going to stick around to go down with the ship and let his coaching reputation suffer for it?

C'mon, you MUST be smarter than that, right? You honestly don't see any scenario where this could harm Fred's ability to recruit? And if he can't recruit and is strapped, you don't think he'd jump to the NBA? C'mon. Think!

Seems like an odd question to ask a coach on your recruiting visit? :)
 

klamath632

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

I got to page 13 before I gave up reading because it's readily apparent no one has actually bothered to read the appeal that was submitted to the supreme court.

1) It comes down to what I and a couple others noted earlier about this being not about what Bubu did and didn't do, but about people outside of the adequate and fair student discipline system overstepping.

2) If you read the appeal you'd know that Bubu does not contest and hasn't ever contested that he violated the student code about sexual misconduct. Simply the punishment for it.

Given point 2 it shouldn't come as a surprise that the administration believes ISU should be able to dictate the actual punishment which was stripped by point 1 above.

For those of you that keep saying 2 judges have found Bubu innocent. You are twisting an important fact. He was not found guilty criminally. He hasn't been charged with a criminal violation. In fact that portion of the student code violation was dropped in the ISU discipline process as well.

For the love of everything rational please read the appeal before going calling for the heads of the leader of the university and the athletic department you are so passionate about. It's abundantly clear from the dialogue that there are about 4-5 people that have actually done more than listen to sports talk radio or skimmed headlines.

It comes down to this. The administrative law judge used criminal law guilt standards on his ruling about whether or not Palo was in violation of student code. Those two codes are not the same thing. ISU student code in this area is more stringent. So 1 person (the alj) found him innocent. The President reviewed the case when it was appealed by ISU judiciary and the complaintant. As part of a fair appeal process. He found Palo Guilty based on the evidence. It was then appealed to the Regents, who also found him guilty (this has been dismissed as a rubber stamp by the district court). It was then appealed to a district court which found NOTHING, they simply delayed the punishment with a stay until a full appeal could get heard. So of the 4 levels of review on this, 2 levels found Palo guilty, 1 found him innocent, and another simply punted. Can we stop acting like this incredibly thorough and fair process is some sort of conspiracy against a kid who has yet to appeal the fact he violated the student code. After all, he accepted 3 of the 4 punishments relating to his violation of the code without any appeal whatsoever.

So basically Palo has said he violated the sexual misconduct code, but still wants to play ball, and ISU can't stop him. Does that seem right to anyone?

LINK. I read the facts presented by the Iowa Board of Regents. Nowhere in those facts do they represent that Palo said that he violated the sexual misconduct code. Unless you can provide a link to these facts, I am calling you a flat-out liar. Palo appealed the university's decision at every turn and was denied by the University each time.

Bubu Palo: State response to ruling
 

Cyclones01

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vmbplayer

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

You are free to read the ISU policy on this matter. It would appear that the court sides with Palo on this matter that he did not violate the policy. If he had violated the policy, I'm sure the case would still be proceeding against him.

Sexual Misconduct, Sexual Assault, and Sexual Harassment Involving Students | Policy Library

Burden of proof is different from criminal court to ISU disciplinary burden. Just as Civil has different requirements than criminal. The fact that OJ Simpson was acquitted of murder didn't prevent him from being liable in civil court. Same deal with criminal court and university discipline.
 

jkclone

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

He's the President of the University, and Pollard reports directly to him, that's how he can do it.
At least in my mind athletics while associated with the school are really seperate. Plus if Leath was just overruling the decision to reinstate him then it first off wouldn't be through this process. Then the second part is this is a normal part of the appeals process.

It gets confusing but there are two different decisions. One on his athletic eligibility where he was reinstated and one where he is accused of violating the code of conduct which should be strictly academic.
 

snowcraig2.0

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Leath is a disaster. What a joke.
 

LutherBlue

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LutherBlue

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

I would say that the charges being dropped with jeapordy attached is evidence that the "non-consent" was a lie.
And you would be wrong again.
 

Cyclones01

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

LINK. I read the facts presented by the Iowa Board of Regents. Nowhere in those facts do they represent that Palo said that he violated the sexual misconduct code. Unless you can provide a link to these facts, I am calling you a flat-out liar. Palo appealed the university's decision at every turn and was denied by the University each time.

Bubu Palo: State response to ruling

Perhaps what he was referring to was the fact that of the four sanctions, he only fought one of those sanctions.


1) an indefinite deferred
suspension;

2) prohibition from participating in or representing Iowa State
University in intercollegiate athletics;

3) participation in sexual assault and
harassment awareness training and

4) participation in alcohol awareness training.

P
alo sought judicial review and a stay of the sanction prohibiting him from playing on the ISU men's basketball team. On January 16, 2014 the district court entered a stay of the sanction and ordered that Palo be allowed to participate as a member of the basketball team. The Board of Regents seeks interlocutory review of the ruling staying agency action.


But I don't see that as an admission of guilt. Obviously that's the one sanction that he really cares about, and the one that is the most time-sensitive, hence the motion for a stay of that sanction
 

LutherBlue

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

At least in my mind athletics while associated with the school are really seperate. Plus if Leath was just overruling the decision to reinstate him then it first off wouldn't be through this process. Then the second part is this is a normal part of the appeals process.

It gets confusing but there are two different decisions. One on his athletic eligibility where he was reinstated and one where he is accused of violating the code of conduct which should be strictly academic.
Hey, you're wrong too!
 

LutherBlue

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

If this debate has shown anything, it is that this message board is full of paranoid people who are uninformed and uneducated regarding civil procedure and Title IX and who apparently haven't had to make professional decisions more complex than paper or plastic at the check out line. But by all means, keep posting.
 
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jkclone

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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

This ignores some very important things.

First off this is the first thing I haven't read because first off appeals don't usually include much if any new info. Also I am tired of reading them.

For your first point how are they overreaching. If anyone overreached it was Leath. I still don't get why he thinks he can overrule Pollard. I'm not saying Leath can't punish athletes just the punishment should be about academics which then would force athletic punishments.

The district court judge went farther than is allowed by going back to the ALJ as by case law they are only able to consider the institutionsfinal decision (in this case Leath's ) . Likewise as outlined in the appeal the AJL was misapplying the guilt standards by requiring the violation show a criminal violation and not a violation of student code of conduct. Held it to a higher standard than is a part of University processes.

For the second point is this specifically in this filing. I have never seen this before. I am not saying it isn't true I just have never seen it before.

This was the most revealing part to me. Bubu was given 4 penalties for the violation of student code. He contested 1 of the 4 penalties, and not his guilt/innocence. Given the fact that he accepted 3 of the 4 punishments to me his appeal is about the severity of the penalty. He has defacto been found guilty of sexual misconduct and has not refuted it through the process.

That said while they can determine the punishment it must be fair and fit the crime. It also must follow the precedent that has been set in the past. I don't believe this follows either.

This has some wheels to it. But if that's the case that seems to be a different debate than everyone is having. If this is what the issue is then the conversation we should all be having is getting kicked off a basketball team that represents the whole university too harsh for having committed a violation of the sexual misconduct section of the student COC. The appeal to the supreme court seems to call out multiple reasons why sexual misconduct was given an even larger importance in the code of conduct. I didn't go to look up all the iowa code sections etc that were cited in the appeal. This however is a far reach from the debate of whether Bubu has just been found guilty and punished for something he did not do. The repeated line that's bothering me is he was found innocent over and over, where he was found guilty and did not appeal that conclusion.

I know this isn't formatted exactly right but I'm to lazy to completely fix it.

I don't get how he overreached by issuing a stay based on the AJL. I would understand and actually research it more if the actual decision was made, but we are talking about a stay. The other part is this. Like someone else said is this stated in the appeal because I don't know where you are seeing it. I'm not denying it just haven't seen it.

To really get into it I think that a lot of people on both sides are misinformed about what this is really about. I agree with you on that. The issues are was the situation mishandled which I believe it was, and what is an appropriate punishment which I don't think we got an appropriate punishment.