Bubu Thread

[ImJustKCClone]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

From the article:
"The attorney general’s office, in its motion, indicated that the district court ruling “interferes with the Board of Regents statutory responsibility to prevent and protect against sexual abuse on university campuses.”"

This, to me, is hypocritical in the extreme. If that was their goal, WHY did Leath merely remove Bubu from the team? Leath let Bubu STAY on campus. Where is the logic in that?

Last fall when the new administrative decision was made public it sounded strange to me. As more details came out (delays in decision-making/announcing, keeping Bubu as a "student in good standing" but not on the team, the potential conflict of interest with the attorney from the AG's office, etc), it started to stink. Now it's this huge odiferous pile of excrement in the middle of campus.

Personally, I hope it lands in certain offices & boardrooms. They made it, they deserve to wallow in it.

 

[vmbplayer]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

I got to page 13 before I gave up reading because it's readily apparent no one has actually bothered to read the appeal that was submitted to the supreme court.

1) It comes down to what I and a couple others noted earlier about this being not about what Bubu did and didn't do, but about people outside of the adequate and fair student discipline system overstepping.

2) If you read the appeal you'd know that Bubu does not contest and hasn't ever contested that he violated the student code about sexual misconduct. Simply the punishment for it.

Given point 2 it shouldn't come as a surprise that the administration believes ISU should be able to dictate the actual punishment which was stripped by point 1 above.

For those of you that keep saying 2 judges have found Bubu innocent. You are twisting an important fact. He was not found guilty criminally. He hasn't been charged with a criminal violation. In fact that portion of the student code violation was dropped in the ISU discipline process as well.

For the love of everything rational please read the appeal before going calling for the heads of the leader of the university and the athletic department you are so passionate about. It's abundantly clear from the dialogue that there are about 4-5 people that have actually done more than listen to sports talk radio or skimmed headlines.

It comes down to this. The administrative law judge used criminal law guilt standards on his ruling about whether or not Palo was in violation of student code. Those two codes are not the same thing. ISU student code in this area is more stringent. So 1 person (the alj) found him innocent. The President reviewed the case when it was appealed by ISU judiciary and the complaintant. As part of a fair appeal process. He found Palo Guilty based on the evidence. It was then appealed to the Regents, who also found him guilty (this has been dismissed as a rubber stamp by the district court). It was then appealed to a district court which found NOTHING, they simply delayed the punishment with a stay until a full appeal could get heard. So of the 4 levels of review on this, 2 levels found Palo guilty, 1 found him innocent, and another simply punted. Can we stop acting like this incredibly thorough and fair process is some sort of conspiracy against a kid who has yet to appeal the fact he violated the student code. After all, he accepted 3 of the 4 punishments relating to his violation of the code without any appeal whatsoever.

So basically Palo has said he violated the sexual misconduct code, but still wants to play ball, and ISU can't stop him. Does that seem right to anyone?

 

[erikbj]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Isu is turning into a joke......next thing to happen is isu loses 10 in a row and misses the tourney. Hoiberg leaves over the mess and isu returns to mcdoormat era

 

[ArathornClone]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

I got to page 13 before I gave up reading because it's readily apparent no one has actually bothered to read the appeal that was submitted to the supreme court.

1) It comes down to what I and a couple others noted earlier about this being not about what Bubu did and didn't do, but about people outside of the adequate and fair student discipline system overstepping.

2) If you read the appeal you'd know that Bubu does not contest and hasn't ever contested that he violated the student code about sexual misconduct. Simply the punishment for it.

Given point 2 it shouldn't come as a surprise that the administration believes ISU should be able to dictate the actual punishment which was stripped by point 1 above.

For those of you that keep saying 2 judges have found Bubu innocent. You are twisting an important fact. He was not found guilty criminally. He hasn't been charged with a criminal violation. In fact that portion of the student code violation was dropped in the ISU discipline process as well.

For the love of everything rational please read the appeal before going calling for the heads of the leader of the university and the athletic department you are so passionate about. It's abundantly clear from the dialogue that there are about 4-5 people that have actually done more than listen to sports talk radio or skimmed headlines.

It comes down to this. The administrative law judge used criminal law guilt standards on his ruling about whether or not Palo was in violation of student code. Those two codes are not the same thing. ISU student code in this area is more stringent. So 1 person (the alj) found him innocent. The President reviewed the case when it was appealed by ISU judiciary and the complaintant. As part of a fair appeal process. He found Palo Guilty based on the evidence. It was then appealed to the Regents, who also found him guilty (this has been dismissed as a rubber stamp by the district court). It was then appealed to a district court which found NOTHING, they simply delayed the punishment with a stay until a full appeal could get heard. So of the 4 levels of review on this, 2 levels found Palo guilty, 1 found him innocent, and another simply punted. Can we stop acting like this incredibly thorough and fair process is some sort of conspiracy against a kid who has yet to appeal the fact he violated the student code. After all, he accepted 3 of the 4 punishments relating to his violation of the code without any appeal whatsoever.

So basically Palo has said he violated the sexual misconduct code, but still wants to play ball, and ISU can't stop him. Does that seem right to anyone?

Yes. Because ISU specifically Leath f-ed up by sitting on it until after the point where the student athlete could transfer and play elsewhere. So until the case can be fully heard per the established appeals process he should be eligible. And obviously the judge agrees.

 

[klamath632]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

Yes but first off that isn't the case here. It also should be up to the athletic department not the president.

For the people saying it isn't ISU I find it hard to believe they aren't also involved. If they aren't then they need to say while we disagree with the decision of the court we oppose appealing the stay.

It IS up to the Athletic Department. Unfortunately this Athletic Department trampled on the civil rights of the player, making it a legal matter. They have only themselves to blame.

 

[vmbplayer]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

It IS up to the Athletic Department. Unfortunately this Athletic Department trampled on the civil rights of the player, making it a legal matter. They have only themselves to blame.

In what way have the civil rights of the player been violated?

 

[klamath632]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

In what way have the civil rights of the player been violated?

He was unjustly removed from the basketball team for a crime he did not commit. The charges were dismissed, however the university treated him as if he were guilty.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

This x 10000.

If people can't see how this could potentially destroy athletics at Iowa State, then they have blinders on. Maybe it won't in the end, let's all hope, but it certainly isn't going to help any.

You have an administration FIGHTING like crazy to kick a student athlete off of a team that was falsely accused of misconduct and that a court even ruled in favor of as well. If you can't see how that might rub future recruits the wrong way, you have to wake up I'm afraid.

Manbearpig is back. I'm super cereal!

We "made" it through the LE ordeal. We "made" it through the child porn basketball coach. We "made" it through the Fennelly episode a while back. We "made" it through so many other challenges. THIS challenge is so much bigger than a silly athletics department. HUGE ramifications for all Iowa institutions.

But really - manbearpig.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

He was unjustly removed from the basketball team for a crime he did not commit. The charges were dismissed, however the university treated him as if he were guilty.

But you said a civil right was violated. Which one?

Also, he was removed for violating student sexual conduct code.

 

[jkclone]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

I got to page 13 before I gave up reading because it's readily apparent no one has actually bothered to read the appeal that was submitted to the supreme court.

1) It comes down to what I and a couple others noted earlier about this being not about what Bubu did and didn't do, but about people outside of the adequate and fair student discipline system overstepping.

2) If you read the appeal you'd know that Bubu does not contest and hasn't ever contested that he violated the student code about sexual misconduct. Simply the punishment for it.

Given point 2 it shouldn't come as a surprise that the administration believes ISU should be able to dictate the actual punishment which was stripped by point 1 above.

For those of you that keep saying 2 judges have found Bubu innocent. You are twisting an important fact. He was not found guilty criminally. He hasn't been charged with a criminal violation. In fact that portion of the student code violation was dropped in the ISU discipline process as well.

For the love of everything rational please read the appeal before going calling for the heads of the leader of the university and the athletic department you are so passionate about. It's abundantly clear from the dialogue that there are about 4-5 people that have actually done more than listen to sports talk radio or skimmed headlines.

It comes down to this. The administrative law judge used criminal law guilt standards on his ruling about whether or not Palo was in violation of student code. Those two codes are not the same thing. ISU student code in this area is more stringent. So 1 person (the alj) found him innocent. The President reviewed the case when it was appealed by ISU judiciary and the complaintant. As part of a fair appeal process. He found Palo Guilty based on the evidence. It was then appealed to the Regents, who also found him guilty (this has been dismissed as a rubber stamp by the district court). It was then appealed to a district court which found NOTHING, they simply delayed the punishment with a stay until a full appeal could get heard. So of the 4 levels of review on this, 2 levels found Palo guilty, 1 found him innocent, and another simply punted. Can we stop acting like this incredibly thorough and fair process is some sort of conspiracy against a kid who has yet to appeal the fact he violated the student code. After all, he accepted 3 of the 4 punishments relating to his violation of the code without any appeal whatsoever.

So basically Palo has said he violated the sexual misconduct code, but still wants to play ball, and ISU can't stop him. Does that seem right to anyone?

This ignores some very important things.

First off this is the first thing I haven't read because first off appeals don't usually include much if any new info. Also I am tired of reading them.

For your first point how are they overreaching. If anyone overreached it was Leath. I still don't get why he thinks he can overrule Pollard. I'm not saying Leath can't punish athletes just the punishment should be about academics which then would force athletic punishments.

For the second point is this specifically in this filing. I have never seen this before. I am not saying it isn't true I just have never seen it before.

That said while they can determine the punishment it must be fair and fit the crime. It also must follow the precedent that has been set in the past. I don't believe this follows either.

 

[vmbplayer]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

He was unjustly removed from the basketball team for a crime he did not commit. The charges were dismissed, however the university treated him as if he were guilty.

He hasn't been charged with a crime. He has been charged with a violation of the student code of conduct. Which he has been found guilty of and not appealed.

To say his civil rights have been trampled because the University disciplined him for violating the student code of conduct is saying the University can only hold students accountable for items which are a violation of state law. Meaning the school has no recourse for outright cheating on an exam as it doesn't violate a law.

 

[isufbcurt]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

I got to page 13 before I gave up reading because it's readily apparent no one has actually bothered to read the appeal that was submitted to the supreme court.

1) It comes down to what I and a couple others noted earlier about this being not about what Bubu did and didn't do, but about people outside of the adequate and fair student discipline system overstepping.

2) If you read the appeal you'd know that Bubu does not contest and hasn't ever contested that he violated the student code about sexual misconduct. Simply the punishment for it.

Given point 2 it shouldn't come as a surprise that the administration believes ISU should be able to dictate the actual punishment which was stripped by point 1 above.

For those of you that keep saying 2 judges have found Bubu innocent. You are twisting an important fact. He was not found guilty criminally. He hasn't been charged with a criminal violation. In fact that portion of the student code violation was dropped in the ISU discipline process as well.

For the love of everything rational please read the appeal before going calling for the heads of the leader of the university and the athletic department you are so passionate about. It's abundantly clear from the dialogue that there are about 4-5 people that have actually done more than listen to sports talk radio or skimmed headlines.

It comes down to this. The administrative law judge used criminal law guilt standards on his ruling about whether or not Palo was in violation of student code. Those two codes are not the same thing. ISU student code in this area is more stringent. So 1 person (the alj) found him innocent. The President reviewed the case when it was appealed by ISU judiciary and the complaintant. As part of a fair appeal process. He found Palo Guilty based on the evidence. It was then appealed to the Regents, who also found him guilty (this has been dismissed as a rubber stamp by the district court). It was then appealed to a district court which found NOTHING, they simply delayed the punishment with a stay until a full appeal could get heard. So of the 4 levels of review on this, 2 levels found Palo guilty, 1 found him innocent, and another simply punted. Can we stop acting like this incredibly thorough and fair process is some sort of conspiracy against a kid who has yet to appeal the fact he violated the student code. After all, he accepted 3 of the 4 punishments relating to his violation of the code without any appeal whatsoever.

So basically Palo has said he violated the sexual misconduct code, but still wants to play ball, and ISU can't stop him. Does that seem right to anyone?

If he was such a threat to the ISU community and students he should have been removed from school and had his scholarship revoked. But ISU deemed he wasn't a threat when he was allowed to stay in school and keep a schalorship. How merely removing him from the basketball team while still being allowed to attend ISU in good standing and keep his basketball scholarship is protecting the ISU community is beyond me.

One thing I do know is that by this one decision Leath has screwed CFH in 3 different ways:
1. creating a distraction for a team that was having a good year
2. removing a player that CFH WANTED on the team and to be playing
3. not making a ruling before the date of no return and sticking CFH with a person on scholarship who isn't even allowed to play thus putting him down 1 scholarship player.

 

[jkclone]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

It IS up to the Athletic Department. Unfortunately this Athletic Department trampled on the civil rights of the player, making it a legal matter. They have only themselves to blame.

The athletic department reinstated him. The president and university are the ones that screwed up.

While JP said the athletic department was disappointed I think it was more of the repeating the university opinion.

 

[isufbcurt]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

He hasn't been charged with a crime. He has been charged with a violation of the student code of conduct. Which he has been found guilty of and not appealed.

To say his civil rights have been trampled because the University disciplined him for violating the student code of conduct is saying the University can only hold students accountable for items which are a violation of state law. Meaning the school has no recourse for outright cheating on an exam as it doesn't violate a law.

I would like to see the part in the student code of conduct that says it is a violation to "have sex with an ex-gf while she is dating someone else". Glad Leath wasn't here when I was in school or I would have been booted from football.

 

[BallSoHard4Cy]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

ISU starting to look like the bad guy to me. Just let it go. He'll be on the team for two months.

 

[Three4Cy]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

This ignores some very important things.

First off this is the first thing I haven't read because first off appeals don't usually include much if any new info. Also I am tired of reading them.

For your first point how are they overreaching. If anyone overreached it was Leath. I still don't get why he thinks he can overrule Pollard. I'm not saying Leath can't punish athletes just the punishment should be about academics which then would force athletic punishments.

For the second point is this specifically in this filing. I have never seen this before. I am not saying it isn't true I just have never seen it before.

That said while they can determine the punishment it must be fair and fit the crime. It also must follow the precedent that has been set in the past. I don't believe this follows either.

He's the President of the University, and Pollard reports directly to him, that's how he can do it.

 

[klamath632]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

He hasn't been charged with a crime. He has been charged with a violation of the student code of conduct. Which he has been found guilty of and not appealed.

To say his civil rights have been trampled because the University disciplined him for violating the student code of conduct is saying the University can only hold students accountable for items which are a violation of state law. Meaning the school has no recourse for outright cheating on an exam as it doesn't violate a law.

You are free to read the ISU policy on this matter. It would appear that the court sides with Palo on this matter that he did not violate the policy. If he had violated the policy, I'm sure the case would still be proceeding against him.

Sexual Misconduct, Sexual Assault, and Sexual Harassment Involving Students | Policy Library

 

[Three4Cy]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

I would like to see the part in the student code of conduct that says it is a violation to "have sex with an ex-gf while she is dating someone else". Glad Leath wasn't here when I was in school or I would have been booted from football.

Sexual Misconduct, Sexual Assault, and Sexual Harassment Involving Students | Policy Library

A prior relationship or prior sexual activity is not sufficient to demonstrate consent.

 

[vmbplayer]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

This ignores some very important things.

First off this is the first thing I haven't read because first off appeals don't usually include much if any new info. Also I am tired of reading them.

For your first point how are they overreaching. If anyone overreached it was Leath. I still don't get why he thinks he can overrule Pollard. I'm not saying Leath can't punish athletes just the punishment should be about academics which then would force athletic punishments.

The district court judge went farther than is allowed by going back to the ALJ as by case law they are only able to consider the institutionsfinal decision (in this case Leath's ) . Likewise as outlined in the appeal the AJL was misapplying the guilt standards by requiring the violation show a criminal violation and not a violation of student code of conduct. Held it to a higher standard than is a part of University processes.

For the second point is this specifically in this filing. I have never seen this before. I am not saying it isn't true I just have never seen it before.

This was the most revealing part to me. Bubu was given 4 penalties for the violation of student code. He contested 1 of the 4 penalties, and not his guilt/innocence. Given the fact that he accepted 3 of the 4 punishments to me his appeal is about the severity of the penalty. He has defacto been found guilty of sexual misconduct and has not refuted it through the process.

That said while they can determine the punishment it must be fair and fit the crime. It also must follow the precedent that has been set in the past. I don't believe this follows either.

This has some wheels to it. But if that's the case that seems to be a different debate than everyone is having. If this is what the issue is then the conversation we should all be having is getting kicked off a basketball team that represents the whole university too harsh for having committed a violation of the sexual misconduct section of the student COC. The appeal to the supreme court seems to call out multiple reasons why sexual misconduct was given an even larger importance in the code of conduct. I didn't go to look up all the iowa code sections etc that were cited in the appeal. This however is a far reach from the debate of whether Bubu has just been found guilty and punished for something he did not do. The repeated line that's bothering me is he was found innocent over and over, where he was found guilty and did not appeal that conclusion.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team

He was unjustly removed from the basketball team for a crime he did not commit. The charges were dismissed, however the university treated him as if he were guilty.

For the love of.......basketball is not a civil right!