Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
How?
Bubu Thread
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Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
Second, as has been explained over and over and over again, the standard of proof and factual elements of the criminal prosecution are considerably different than the standards under the ISU student code. So the fact that charges were dropped doesn't have much of anything to do with what may or may not have been proved by a preponderance of he evidence in the student misconduct hearing.
You tool. The court ruled that Palo was entitle to a stay of the penalty pending appeal. It did not comment on his guilt or innocence under the ISU Sexual Misconduct policy.
Second, as has been explained over and over and over again, the standard of proof and factual elements of the criminal prosecution are considerably different than the standards under the ISU student code. So the fact that charges were dropped doesn't have much of anything to do with what may or may not have been proved by a preponderance of he evidence in the student misconduct hearing.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
I see what you're saying, but what he's saying is that
1. The court didn't make any ruling at all, because charges weren't even brought against him. But even had they been brought, the court would not have ruled on anything relating to ISU policy. They would have ruled on whether he broke the law.
2. The charges being dropped doesn't mean the non-consent was a lie. It just means they didn't think there was enough evidence to bring charges against him. So whether or not it was a lie was never brought to court.
I see what you're saying, but what he's saying is that
1. The court didn't make any ruling at all, because charges weren't even brought against him. But even had they been brought, the court would not have ruled on anything relating to ISU policy. They would have ruled on whether he broke the law.
2. The charges being dropped doesn't mean the non-consent was a lie. It just means they didn't think there was enough evidence to bring charges against him. So whether or not it was a lie was never brought to court.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
I'm a tool? Wow.
The court ruled that Palo was injured by the University. He's going to get his day in court. And he's probably going to win.
I'm a tool? Wow.
The court ruled that Palo was injured by the University. He's going to get his day in court. And he's probably going to win.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
First kudos to you for getting to this point before flat out attacking my character. Usually that's the sign of someone on a losing side of a debate so I'll count that as a good sign for what I'm arguing.
He did not say he violated the sexual misconduct code. What he did was not appeal the decision or the other 3 parts of the discipline imposed on him.
As for where it is: Bubu Palo: State response to ruling
see page 18 of the appeal:
"The stay allows Palo to pick and choose which sanctions he will be required to comply with after being found to have violated the sexual misconduct policy. Palo did not challange the sanction that was placed him on deferred suspension or required the completion of trainings."
Also some on it on page 7 second to last paragraph.
Also point 7 on page 4. in the statements of fact.
But you're right. I'm probably just a liar. Not like I already suggested everyone opining aimlessly in the thread actual read the appeal that was the basis for this thread existing. It's much easier just to keep going on the assumptions and conclusions we made before the most recent developments because reading an 18 page document is too time consuming but reading an 18 page thread and arguing about something we didn't read is simple.
First kudos to you for getting to this point before flat out attacking my character. Usually that's the sign of someone on a losing side of a debate so I'll count that as a good sign for what I'm arguing.
He did not say he violated the sexual misconduct code. What he did was not appeal the decision or the other 3 parts of the discipline imposed on him.
As for where it is: Bubu Palo: State response to ruling
see page 18 of the appeal:
"The stay allows Palo to pick and choose which sanctions he will be required to comply with after being found to have violated the sexual misconduct policy. Palo did not challange the sanction that was placed him on deferred suspension or required the completion of trainings."
Also some on it on page 7 second to last paragraph.
Also point 7 on page 4. in the statements of fact.
But you're right. I'm probably just a liar. Not like I already suggested everyone opining aimlessly in the thread actual read the appeal that was the basis for this thread existing. It's much easier just to keep going on the assumptions and conclusions we made before the most recent developments because reading an 18 page document is too time consuming but reading an 18 page thread and arguing about something we didn't read is simple.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
Likewise regarding your statement that student code violations should be separate from eligibility decisions. That opinion and $1 will get you a bus ride to the mall. It has no basis in how things are actually structured.
You're simply substituting your judgment about how the institution "should" be organized and governed for how it actually is. The fact that you feel the AD and the academic side should be separate is worth about as much as used toilet paper.
Likewise regarding your statement that student code violations should be separate from eligibility decisions. That opinion and $1 will get you a bus ride to the mall. It has no basis in how things are actually structured.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
The first bit comes from some case law which got cited in the appeal to the supreme court. I'm speculating here because I didn't look up the case cited, but I believe the basis is pretty much once the actual court (district court) get's involved they only review the final decision of the institution. How they came about getting to that decision is irrelevant because it's all internal procedures. At least that's how I read it on first blow.
The first bit comes from some case law which got cited in the appeal to the supreme court. I'm speculating here because I didn't look up the case cited, but I believe the basis is pretty much once the actual court (district court) get's involved they only review the final decision of the institution. How they came about getting to that decision is irrelevant because it's all internal procedures. At least that's how I read it on first blow.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
First, that's a different point than the one you made earlier (that the court ruled Palo didn't violate ISU's policy - that was not addressed by the court). Second, the court didn't say that Palo was "injured" either, go back and read, son.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
Palo did not challenge the sanctions? I strongly disagree. He's challenged the entire decision at every opportunity. He appealed to the Board of Regents. When they did not redress his grievance, he appealed to the District Court. And the District Court had plenty to say about the way that Leath bungled this.
The response submitted by the Board of Regents continues to make the assumption that Bubu Palo is guilty of sexual misconduct. This is based on President Leath's decision, which has been revealed by the courts to be highly suspect. Palo has obviously never agreed with any part of the decision and to claim otherwise is ridiculous.
Palo did not challenge the sanctions? I strongly disagree. He's challenged the entire decision at every opportunity. He appealed to the Board of Regents. When they did not redress his grievance, he appealed to the District Court. And the District Court had plenty to say about the way that Leath bungled this.
The response submitted by the Board of Regents continues to make the assumption that Bubu Palo is guilty of sexual misconduct. This is based on President Leath's decision, which has been revealed by the courts to be highly suspect. Palo has obviously never agreed with any part of the decision and to claim otherwise is ridiculous.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
Agree.
I will end my participation in this thread by reiterating that ISU is not a party to this lawsuit. The Board is the defendant, the Board's ruling was stayed by the District Court judge, and the Board is pursuing the appeal. I am extremely confident that the influence of any of the three regents' institutions on the Board's litigation strategy is quite limited.
You're not even close to reading what I said.
I said the president shouldn't have a say on athletic eligibility. I guess I really don't know for sure. It really doesn't matter because even if he did he didn't overrule the reinstatement.
The fact that this is completely separate from the athletic department is very true. What is happening now could happen to any student including myself. This isn't some special thing for athletes. Why should a punishment be special for athletes.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
Hey, JK, that's a pretty good opinion, then...typically opinions are regarded as 2 cents, but since bus fares are $1.25, that opinion is worth $.25!
Cyride : Fares
Hey, JK, that's a pretty good opinion, then...typically opinions are regarded as 2 cents, but since bus fares are $1.25, that opinion is worth $.25!
Cyride : Fares
Your homework assignment is to figure this out for yourself. I think you can do it.
The special punishment is from athletic department stuff. My god I get tired of this. If Leath thought that no athletics is a fitting punishment and he can overrule Pollard like you claim then he should have done that when Bubu was reinstated. These are two completely different issues.
There is also the part where Leath delayed his decision until after school started. He is not consistent on his decisions.
Re: Register Exclusive: ISU asks Supreme Court to keep Palo off men's basketball team
Ok. I think for the most part we agree. I first off question anything coming out of the BOR/ISU legal papers. They shouldn't be taken as facts. They could theoretically say they should rule this way because I want them to. While I assume there is some relevance we can't assume it is fact. Also I still don't see how ISU is harmed by the stay, and Bubu is clearly harmed without it. As far as I'm concerned ISU gets the best deal with a stay. They get Bubu as he can contribute in some way while also saying that they don't want him. I think that they should have said "While we don't think he should be on the team we have no legal reason for the stay not to be granted." I have not really read into the stuff from today, but from the other stuff I think what I said is fair.
Leath needs to be gone. JP, as much as I like what he's done for ISU athletics, needs to be gone.
Should have dropped it.
Should have dropped it.
