FAWcast discussion about Radon

Cycsk

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The guys had an interesting discussion on the most recent FAWcast about radon. I prefer to talk sports and make snarky comments on this site, but we've had some personal experience that I thought I would share for the public good. When we moved to Ames in 2003, testing the house for radon was recommended, but I treated it like a real estate up-sell and blew it off. Biggest mistake of my life!

My wife grew up in a smoking home (she never smoked). Apparently, you can incur as much as 50% of the damage of smoking by just being in the proximity. Strike 1. Then I moved us to a radon home. Strike 2. And she handled the pool chemicals. Strike 3.

In mid-May 2017, she got sick. For weeks to follow, she just couldn't seem to shake the cough. As the summer went on, it got so bad that she needed oxygen just to keep her O2 level up as they tried to treat the problem. In late summer, they discovered accumulation of fluid in the sacks around the lungs (more than a liter under each lung). Bad sign. Procedures to remove the fluid provided great relief for breathing, but that was only treating a symptom. On the day before the last UNI game (first game of the 2017 season), I'm setting up a tailgate in the RV lot and get the call. Stage IV Lung Cancer. Trooper that she is, she still tailgated the next day and even went to the game before we told anyone.

The stats about Stage IV Lung Cancer are not good, largely because so many people who get it are smokers who eat at McDonalds everyday and don't go to the doctor until it is too late. That was not her. She ate well, exercised, and took better care of herself than any of us in the family. Fortunately, she is doing great. We use an oncologist in Chicago named Dr. Keith Block who specializes in "integrative treatment" (which means he emphasizes chemo, nutrition, supplements, exercise, rest, and more). Because chemo is so toxic, he does whatever he can to help her be strong. Most lung cancer patients die because their bodies can't fight off pneumonia or sepsis, in large part because chemo leaves them so weak. She gets high dose infusions of Vitamin C and Curcumin to help keep her body strong during chemo. She also religiously keeps a strict vegan diet and takes supplements as directed to help her with certain aspects of her blood tests and terrain markers. Her main tumor shrunk significantly right away and she has experienced good progress such that Dr. Block just gave her a 60 day chemo holiday in which to rely just on diet and supplements. A few weekends ago, she biked 7 miles around Ada Hayden park. So, things are looking good for her.

Now, back to the causes. It isn't that radon "causes" cancer. Radon causes inflammation, particularly in the lungs, and inflammation makes an organ hospitable for cancer growth. Same with smoking and pool chemicals. She had the triple whammy. Additionally, we have learned that she is a victim, like most of us, of the American diet and lifestyle that contributes to vulnerability to cancer (e.g. sugar feeds cancer cells at a rate much, much higher than the rate of normal cells). We can't draw the line from any one thing to her cancer, but it makes sense that all these things contributed.

Here is how I understand radon to work. Radon gas leaks into a house through the crevices under the foundation that eventually channel water to your sump tank. When the channels have no water in them, the radon finds the path of least resistance and gets into the channels. The circulating air helps pull the radon into the house. Once in the house, it tends to settle as it is too heavy to "float," so basements are usually the worst. We hired a radon mitigation company to test (we wanted a more reliable test than the one we got from the American Cancer Society). Although we didn't do it, I like the idea of having someone do the testing who doesn't make anything from the installation of the mitigation system because it helps eliminate the concern about being taking advantage of. Indeed, our radon levels were very high. Essentially, they built a frame around our sump tank, covered it with an acrylic sheet, and caulked the seams. A pipe comes through the acrylic cover and runs up into our garage attic where a blower sends the radon into the neighborhood. Seriously, I asked if it is just going to fall down and gather inside our backyard fence, but was assured that once it gets up in the air, it dissipates just like radon that leaks from the ground where there is no house.

So that is our story. It is a bit more personal than I like to be on the site. Snarky anonymity is my preference. But rarely have I had such personal experience to share. I thought it might be a good public service for me to share it with you as CF has become a meaningful community to me.
 

ArgentCy

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Jan 13, 2010
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The guys had an interesting discussion on the most recent FAWcast about radon. I prefer to talk sports and make snarky comments on this site, but we've had some personal experience that I thought I would share for the public good. When we moved to Ames in 2003, testing the house for radon was recommended, but I treated it like a real estate up-sell and blew it off. Biggest mistake of my life!

My wife grew up in a smoking home (she never smoked). Apparently, you can incur as much as 50% of the damage of smoking by just being in the proximity. Strike 1. Then I moved us to a radon home. Strike 2. And she handled the pool chemicals. Strike 3.

In mid-May 2017, she got sick. For weeks to follow, she just couldn't seem to shake the cough. As the summer went on, it got so bad that she needed oxygen just to keep her O2 level up as they tried to treat the problem. In late summer, they discovered accumulation of fluid in the sacks around the lungs (more than a liter under each lung). Bad sign. Procedures to remove the fluid provided great relief for breathing, but that was only treating a symptom. On the day before the last UNI game (first game of the 2017 season), I'm setting up a tailgate in the RV lot and get the call. Stage IV Lung Cancer. Trooper that she is, she still tailgated the next day and even went to the game before we told anyone.

The stats about Stage IV Lung Cancer are not good, largely because so many people who get it are smokers who eat at McDonalds everyday and don't go to the doctor until it is too late. That was not her. She ate well, exercised, and took better care of herself than any of us in the family. Fortunately, she is doing great. We use an oncologist in Chicago named Dr. Keith Block who specializes in "integrative treatment" (which means he emphasizes chemo, nutrition, supplements, exercise, rest, and more). Because chemo is so toxic, he does whatever he can to help her be strong. Most lung cancer patients die because their bodies can't fight off pneumonia or sepsis, in large part because chemo leaves them so weak. She gets high dose infusions of Vitamin C and Curcumin to help keep her body strong during chemo. She also religiously keeps a strict vegan diet and takes supplements as directed to help her with certain aspects of her blood tests and terrain markers. Her main tumor shrunk significantly right away and she has experienced good progress such that Dr. Block just gave her a 60 day chemo holiday in which to rely just on diet and supplements. A few weekends ago, she biked 7 miles around Ada Hayden park. So, things are looking good for her.

Now, back to the causes. It isn't that radon "causes" cancer. Radon causes inflammation, particularly in the lungs, and inflammation makes an organ hospitable for cancer growth. Same with smoking and pool chemicals. She had the triple whammy. Additionally, we have learned that she is a victim, like most of us, of the American diet and lifestyle that contributes to vulnerability to cancer (e.g. sugar feeds cancer cells at a rate much, much higher than the rate of normal cells). We can't draw the line from any one thing to her cancer, but it makes sense that all these things contributed.

Here is how I understand radon to work. Radon gas leaks into a house through the crevices under the foundation that eventually channel water to your sump tank. When the channels have no water in them, the radon finds the path of least resistance and gets into the channels. The circulating air helps pull the radon into the house. Once in the house, it tends to settle as it is too heavy to "float," so basements are usually the worst. We hired a radon mitigation company to test (we wanted a more reliable test than the one we got from the American Cancer Society). Although we didn't do it, I like the idea of having someone do the testing who doesn't make anything from the installation of the mitigation system because it helps eliminate the concern about being taking advantage of. Indeed, our radon levels were very high. Essentially, they built a frame around our sump tank, covered it with an acrylic sheet, and caulked the seams. A pipe comes through the acrylic cover and runs up into our garage attic where a blower sends the radon into the neighborhood. Seriously, I asked if it is just going to fall down and gather inside our backyard fence, but was assured that once it gets up in the air, it dissipates just like radon that leaks from the ground where there is no house.

So that is our story. It is a bit more personal than I like to be on the site. Snarky anonymity is my preference. But rarely have I had such personal experience to share. I thought it might be a good public service for me to share it with you as CF has become a meaningful community to me.

Thank you for your story and I wish your wife good luck. It sounds like you've found a terrific and rare doctor. Change comes slowly. I've been taking many supplements including large amounts of Vitamin C for some time, of course I also eat fast food most everyday so that's not great.
 

Cycsk

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We have learned so much about cancer, such as how tumors create their own blood supply to bypass a body's immune system. And the tricky balance between attacking cancer with toxic chemo and helping your own immune system fight cancer. So far, so good. As my son said recently, "We are no longer counting down (with concern based on the survivor stats), but counting up (with hope about good things such as months without oxygen)!"

But I hope the focus of this thread stays on radon, not her. Radon mitigation is one of the main things that you can do to lessen the risk. People don't "get" cancer because of radon (else our whole family would have it). It seems that hers is mostly a matter of her predisposition (both genetic and growing up in a smoking home) encountering conditions favorable for cancer growth, such as chronic inflammation of her lungs due to years of constant exposure to radon. This is not unlike the effect that smoking has on your lungs. In her case, growing up in a smoking home probably made her lungs more vulnerable to the inflammation from radon.

Radon is not the "smoking gun" of lung cancer (no pun intended), but it is one of the things that has a very logical link to susceptibility of lung cancer because of the inflammation it causes in your lungs that creates a very hospitable environment for cancer growth. Thus, if you get radon mitigation, but still smoke, you may not be accomplishing very much.
 
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Cycsk

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One more thing. There is a billboard in Ames that focuses on radon mitigation for the benefit of your pets. That is something we hadn't thought of. Many pets spend all day, every day breathing air near the floor where the radon levels are highest. I don't have any research on lung cancer in pets, but it seems logical that they would also be at risk.
 

ArgentCy

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Also I don't know why Mark mentions glaciers and higher Radon but those have nothing in common. It does come from the breakdown of heavier elements such as Uranium. Also, side note, these elements (everything heavier than Iron) come from super nova and other very high energy explosions.

There is all kinds of reason for sellers to NOT want to do major repairs like roofs and foundation. This is called selling in "As-IS" condition. Obviously the sellers don't have the money.
 

ForbinsAscynt

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Also I don't know why Mark mentions glaciers and higher Radon but those have nothing in common. It does come from the breakdown of heavier elements such as Uranium. Also, side note, these elements (everything heavier than Iron) come from super nova and other very high energy explosions.

There is all kinds of reason for sellers to NOT want to do major repairs like roofs and foundation. This is called selling in "As-IS" condition. Obviously the sellers don't have the money.
A quick google search shows Iowa has the highest risk for increased radon levels and one news story says it is due to high levels of radium which dates back to the states glacial history although it did not detail further. I imagine that’s where he got it from and if it is a myth, local media is spreading fake news. Please post any resources you have as to why Iowa in particular has this risk. I am genuinely interested
 

wxman1

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Also I don't know why Mark mentions glaciers and higher Radon but those have nothing in common. It does come from the breakdown of heavier elements such as Uranium. Also, side note, these elements (everything heavier than Iron) come from super nova and other very high energy explosions.

There is all kinds of reason for sellers to NOT want to do major repairs like roofs and foundation. This is called selling in "As-IS" condition. Obviously the sellers don't have the money.

I took that as more of a comment toward the Kansas being the sea floor thing than it was about being tied to radon.
 

ForbinsAscynt

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From the UofI Hospital and Clinics
"As the glaciers came over Iowa, they deposited finely ground rocks that contain radium. Because the rocks that make up our soils are so finely ground, they have a large surface area to emit radon gas."
 

Cycsk

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I took that as more of a comment toward the Kansas being the sea floor thing than it was about being tied to radon.


Kansas = sea floor = bottom-feeders = KU
 
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ArgentCy

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From the UofI Hospital and Clinics
"As the glaciers came over Iowa, they deposited finely ground rocks that contain radium. Because the rocks that make up our soils are so finely ground, they have a large surface area to emit radon gas."

I suppose that is possible but would mean that it picked up Uranium ores from say Canada and deposited them around here. The surface area doesn't matter as this is a nuclear decay process.

I know down here at least we have lots of coal seams and these are often associated with potential pockets of Radon as well. This is without any significant glaciers making it to southern Iowa. I think this is more because it provides a place for whatever Radon does form to sink and just sit / concentrate more than anything to do with the coal.
 

Cycsk

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I was just up on our roof cleaning gutters and walked past the exhaust from our radon mitigation system. Let's just say that I took the long way around it! :eek:
 

ISUAlum2002

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We had a couple of pets die within about a 10 month period of time. One was a 100lb lab and the other was our cat. Both ended up with lung issues and died from them - the dog was only about 8 years old and the cat was 13. I bought one of those carbon sampler test kits from Home Depot after we kind of made the connection on our own that maybe radon contributed to their issues since they both spent a lot of time in the lowest level of the house. However, I didn't get around to actually running the test until recently when we started having work done to finish our walk out lower level so we could use it more.

We live in a house that is 7 years old out near Waukee; we've owned it since it was built. It's a two story walk out, built on enough of a slope that the sump pump essentially never runs and doesn't need to.

I ran the test, which is just opening the sampler for a few days and then mailing it to a lab down in Texas. Got the results back and they were nearly triple the EPA acceptable limits for radon concentration. The EPA says 4.0 pCi/L is "acceptable," and ours came in at about 11.7.

I bought an electronic radon meter and it confirmed the results. I went ahead and installed a sump cover designed to seal the sump and it brought the results down to around 7-8 pCi/L relatively consistently. Not low enough for me....beings that I'm a non-smoker, never touched the stuff, my luck would be that I'd get lung cancer before any of my friends who smoke like its going out of style. So now I'm getting ready to install a radon mitigation system on my own. Seems pretty easy, just will be time consuming with figuring out how/where to run the PVC piping.

Anyway.....definitely something everyone should check on, especially if you have a little one to care for like I do.
 

brianhos

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Also I don't know why Mark mentions glaciers and higher Radon but those have nothing in common. It does come from the breakdown of heavier elements such as Uranium. Also, side note, these elements (everything heavier than Iron) come from super nova and other very high energy explosions.

There is all kinds of reason for sellers to NOT want to do major repairs like roofs and foundation. This is called selling in "As-IS" condition. Obviously the sellers don't have the money.

The uranium/radium got here because of the glaciers.
 

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