BYU wants in the Big 12

[HFCS]

West Virginia's overall audience is three times the size of Louisville's. The Big 12 definitely made the right move by getting West Virginia over Louisville.

I've never bought this, at least not that it's WVU being easily better.

WV state population: 1.8 million (smallest population of any state withe a BCS team)
Kentucky state population: 4.4 million (about 3x larger)
Louisville Metro: 1.3 million (almost the same population of WV's entire state)

Louisville basketball attendance, easily #1 in the nation practically every year, almost double WVU
Louisville football attendance: 53k
WVU football attendance: 53k

Louisville enrollment: 21k
WVU enrollment: 30k (the only clear advantage I can find)

I'd believe it's a wash, I can't believe WVU is some awesome media grab compared to Louisville. Especially coming off national title in hoops and BCS bowl in football. Cherry on top is Louisville fit the footprint better while still adding a media market 3x the population of WV.

 

[MNCyGuy]

Yeah, I get that. I just think a reason for it needs to be taken into account.

A theoretical Texas saying we won't play on Fridays because TV viewership isn't as high as it should be on the Longhorn Network is not nearly the same as a Christian school saying playing on Sunday is not allowed due to our religious beliefs just as it would for a Jewish school to say they couldn't play on Saturdays.

And before we get a bunch of athiest responses, it isn't about what each of us believe, it is about what they believe. I don't think there is anything wrong with respecting what they believe even if we don't share their beliefs.

Let's try to talk about this without sending it to the cave...

I don't think it's disrespectful of their beliefs to say that the conference doesn't want to have rework everything to accommodate them.

 

[isuno1fan]

I've never bought this, at least not that it's WVU being easily better.

WV state population: 1.8 million (smallest population of any state withe a BCS team)
Kentucky state population: 4.4 million (about 3x larger)
Louisville Metro: 1.3 million (almost the same population of WV's entire state)

Louisville basketball attendance, easily #1 in the nation practically every year, almost double WVU
Louisville football attendance: 53k
WVU football attendance: 53k

Louisville enrollment: 21k
WVU enrollment: 30k (the only clear advantage I can find)

I'd believe it's a wash, I can't believe WVU is some awesome media grab compared to Louisville. Especially coming off national title in hoops and BCS bowl in football. Cherry on top is Louisville fit the footprint better while still adding a media market 3x the population of WV.

WVU is a flagship state university. That is what this conference needs more of and not city schools. I like Louisville and all, but WVU is without question a better grab (minus geography).

 

[chuckd4735]

I've never bought this, at least not that it's WVU being easily better.

WV state population: 1.8 million (smallest population of any state withe a BCS team)
Kentucky state population: 4.4 million (about 3x larger)
Louisville Metro: 1.3 million (almost the same population of WV's entire state)

Louisville basketball attendance, easily #1 in the nation practically every year, almost double WVU
Louisville football attendance: 53k
WVU football attendance: 53k

Louisville enrollment: 21k
WVU enrollment: 30k (the only clear advantage I can find)

I'd believe it's a wash, I can't believe WVU is some awesome media grab compared to Louisville. Especially coming off national title in hoops and BCS bowl in football. Cherry on top is Louisville fit the footprint better while still adding a media market 3x the population of WV.

None of that matters. Eyes on TV sets are what matters. I go back to this everytime... http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

I know a lot of people try and discredit it, but it the most comprehensive look into fanbases that anyone has done, and it typically lines up with the decisions conferences are making as far as expansion.

 

[HFCS]

None of that matters. Eyes on TV sets are what matters. I go back to this everytime... http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

I know a lot of people try and discredit it, but it the most comprehensive look into fanbases that anyone has done, and it typically lines up with the decisions conferences are making as far as expansion.

Yes, I don't believe WVU gets significantly more eyes on tv sets than Louisville. It's a push at best, in the long run decades from now I'd put my chips on Louisville. In my opinion the plus and minus of each are about a push, then Louisville fitting the footprint a little more in better recruiting territory will always have me believe they would have been the better add. Louisville is one of the largest markets in the country that doesn't have pro sports.

 

[CyStalker]

Yeah, I get that. I just think a reason for it needs to be taken into account.

A theoretical Texas saying we won't play on Fridays because TV viewership isn't as high as it should be on the Longhorn Network is not nearly the same as a Christian school saying playing on Sunday is not allowed due to our religious beliefs just as it would for a Jewish school to say they couldn't play on Saturdays.

And before we get a bunch of athiest responses, it isn't about what each of us believe, it is about what they believe. I don't think there is anything wrong with respecting what they believe even if we don't share their beliefs.

Let's try to talk about this without sending it to the cave...

I don't disagree. As I stated earlier I'm fine with BYU having that policy if that is what they believe. I know when the whole realignment stuff exploded, BYU stood behind that belief and policy. For many different reasons, BYU did not get picked up by a major conference. It appeared to me at the time that BYU really thought they had a lot to offer and would be a valuable pick up to any major conference. Now it appears they are panicking a bit and realizing that they may indeed be left in the dark. My hypothetical question: If BYU were approached by any major conference, but the inviting conference would not abide by the Sunday policy, would BYU accept now?

 

[ketelmeister]

I would love BYU in the Big 12. Super road trip and a team we would compete well with. And it would add stability to the conference. Opens the door for Big 12 to dominate the Western states that aren't in the Pac 12.

 

[chuckd4735]

Yes, I don't believe WVU gets significantly more eyes on tv sets than Louisville. It's a push at best, in the long run decades from now I'd put my chips on Louisville. In my opinion the plus and minus of each are about a push, then Louisville fitting the footprint a little more in better recruiting territory will always have me believe they would have been the better add. Louisville is one of the largest markets in the country that doesn't have pro sports.

Well according to what I linked, West Virginia has three times the amount of eyes on TV sets then Louisville. If someone would like to do another study to discredit this one, feel free, but Ill go with those results.

 

[alarson]

I don't think it's disrespectful of their beliefs to say that the conference doesn't want to have rework everything to accommodate them.

Agreed with this. They have the right to their beliefs, and the big 12 has the right to say 'that's fine if you believe that, but we're not looking to change everything just to accommodate those beliefs'

 

[HFCS]

Well according to what I linked, West Virginia has three times the amount of eyes on TV sets then Louisville. If someone would like to do another study to discredit this one, feel free, but Ill go with those results.

I'm just saying I don't think it's a slam dunk that the #1 most attended basketball program of the past 50 years with national titles to show for it, which has expanded its football stadium, gets the same 53k a game for football games and is in a much bigger media market, somehow has drastically less media attention than WVU playing in the lowest population bcs team state.

There are plenty of anomalies in that study, an athletic program with louisville's winning history in a metro of 1.3 million people only having 300k sets of eyes watching it is one of them. It's not like they're just some competitive basketball program, they bring in $ like no other and their football program has risen quickly.

 

[twistedredbird]

None of that matters. Eyes on TV sets are what matters. I go back to this everytime... http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

I know a lot of people try and discredit it, but it the most comprehensive look into fanbases that anyone has done, and it typically lines up with the decisions conferences are making as far as expansion.

Stop trying to bring logic and numbers into the equation.

Along these lines, as stated by the Big 12 Commish previously, the Big 12 is interested in brands, as that is what TV carriers think about. And like it or not, BYU will get a lot of TVs turned on. Mormon is the fastest growing faith in 1/2 the US,http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-05-02/religion-census-mromon/54701198/1

and BYU has more potential as a National brand than almost any other school on the plate, and is a young demographic, while Notre Dame's is one of the oldest.

I think the Big 12 is more interested in brands, then "home markets" BYU, is a strong national brand, but not playing on Sundays creates too many problems for non-football teams. WBB, VB, Softball, Soccer, Golf, Diving, Track, Baseball, etc. If they want in, they need to figure that piece out.

I would be good with adding them as a partner like the ND/ACC situation, but maybe it is only 3 or 4 games, not 5.

 

[twistedredbird]

The difference between WVU and Louisville is simple, it is like Iowa vs. Iowa State. Louisville will always be a school that is supported by alumni, and a very small regional base, where the other is a "state" or large regional brand. Like it or not, it is the truth. People from Kentucky are Kentucky fans, unless they or their children went to Louisville.

 

[amishclone]

Mormons vs Baptist vs Christians! the only thing we are missing is Methodists

I resent that!

 

[isuno1fan]

I'm just saying I don't think it's a slam dunk that the #1 most attended basketball program of the past 50 years with national titles to show for it, which has expanded its football stadium, gets the same 53k a game for football games and is in a much bigger media market, somehow has drastically less media attention than WVU playing in the lowest population bcs team state.

There are plenty of anomalies in that study, an athletic program with louisville's winning history in a metro of 1.3 million people only having 300k sets of eyes watching it is one of them. It's not like they're just some competitive basketball program, they bring in $ like no other and their football program has risen quickly.

Have you been to Kentucky? Most (80%) including in the city of Louisville are UK fans. Louisville has nice facilities but the eyeballs aren't there for them. I would have liked them in the Big 12 but in addition to WVU and not in place of them. WVU is the bigger brand by far.

 

[isuno1fan]

The difference between WVU and Louisville is simple, it is like Iowa vs. Iowa State. Louisville will always be a school that is supported by alumni, and a very small regional base, where the other is a "state" or large regional brand. Like it or not, it is the truth. People from Kentucky are Kentucky fans, unless they or their children went to Louisville.

Truth

 

[HFCS]

The difference between WVU and Louisville is simple, it is like Iowa vs. Iowa State. Louisville will always be a school that is supported by alumni, and a very small regional base, where the other is a "state" or large regional brand. Like it or not, it is the truth. People from Kentucky are Kentucky fans, unless they or their children went to Louisville.

I don't think we have near the national TV cache Louisville has or near the local following and $ Louisville has, but a decade of Hoiball could push us in that direction. Louisville basketball is one of the only basketball programs that competes with plenty of bcs football programs in terms of generating revenue.



Anyway not to side track, I just think a lot of the "WVU was a slam dunk over UL" is revisionist from Big 12 fans.

 

[acgclone]

If the NCAA rules that you still need 12 teams to play a conference championship game, we'll add two schools, IMO. If they change the rules and allow us to play a conference championship with our current 10 team format, I bet we stand pat.

 

[ImJustKCClone]

BYU threw the NCAA into a tizzy a few years back when they were seeded in a manner that projected a Sunday game if they won in the early rounds. Fortunately, they lost early.

IMO - When you attempt to operate under religious rules in an entirely voluntary arena in the secular (or perhaps "different-thinking sacred") realm, the onus is really on you to decide how much you are willing to compromise your beliefs to enable you to participate in that secular event...particularly if you stand to profit greatly by your participation. It is not up to the rest of the groups participating to adjust their level of activity to your religious beliefs. If you ask, and they agree, that's fine. If they decline because they believe it would hamper their own participation, that should be acceptable also.

BYU is asking for a large accommodation. If their contribution to the pot is significant enough to accept their terms, so be it.

Again...talking about VOLUNTARY participation here.

 

[HFCS]

If the NCAA rules that you still need 12 teams to play a conference championship game, we'll add two schools, IMO. If they change the rules and allow us to play a conference championship with our current 10 team format, I bet we stand pat.

I'm fine w/ 10 either way. BYU obviously has always had some positives and negatives. It's a really interesting discussion as to who #12 could be now with the entire ACC off the table. There's no real obvious choice…the people here dogging certainly Louisville can't mention Cincy with a straight face. Adding another mountain region team with growth potential may make more sense than Cincy or UConn if BYU were automatic #11. USF and UCF are interesting but then you're truly a stretched out geographic mess.

 

[SerenityNow]

For awhile, I was concerned with only having 10 teams. And, I know it's really only been a couple of years and "the jury's still out" on whether it will work long term. However, I am perfectly content with the way it's set up now and have no issues with it staying that way.

That said, if ND came along with BYU, I'd be just fine with that. I know it won't happen, but that's really the only way I see BYU getting an invite.