Will Prohm ever win a championship?

[bluestarcyclone]

Some people talking about a coaching change in the middle of a season where we'll be going dancing. Cool cool

Most people aren't talking about a coaching change. Almost no one is.

But plenty of people are bringing up straw men like this against anyone who brings even the slightest criticism.

Have any criticism, regardless of how valid (and i think there are plenty of valid criticisms of things that are consistently lacking over 4 years) and you get:

"YOURE TALKING ABOUT FIRING HIM?!?!?"
"OH MY GOD, YOURE FREAKING OUT BECAUSE WE DONT GET CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS EVERY YEAR!"
"YEAH, WELL WHO WOULD YOU HIRE"

Honestly, the people who counter-meltdown might be the worst people on the site. They don't tolerate any sort of discussion whatsoever if it ever criticizes the coach. Its like the coach is Dear Leader or something.

 

[clones8232]

A couple losses and people want to fire the coach? We were last in the league last year...LAST

 

[mynameisjonas]

This is insane. You are actually seriously talking about a coaching change. First, check out SPs record before you do that. It's actually quite impressive. Second, the programs with the greatest success - other than us for the past 7 years - have long term consistency in coaching. You don't change coaches that easily.

Reading is difficult, I know. Where did I say that? No I am not talking about a coaching change, I am talking about our next coach. We will have one, unless you think Prohm will be coaching at ISU for the rest of time.

 

[IST8CIVILENGR]

I meant a real championship, not a conference tourney.

So tel me why it matters if KU is down this year?

If your in talking about a real championship, that is a National Championship! Pretty sure you need to go through more than KU to do that.

Oh tell the players that won the B12 Tournament that it doesn’t count cause it’s not real! Laughable at best!

 

[Cat Stevens]

Most people aren't talking about a coaching change. Almost no one is.

But plenty of people are bringing up straw men like this against anyone who brings even the slightest criticism.

Have any criticism, regardless of how valid (and i think there are plenty of valid criticisms of things that are consistently lacking over 4 years) and you get:

"YOURE TALKING ABOUT FIRING HIM?!?!?"
"OH MY GOD, YOURE FREAKING OUT BECAUSE WE DONT GET CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS EVERY YEAR!"
"YEAH, WELL WHO WOULD YOU HIRE"

Honestly, the people who counter-meltdown might be the worst people on the site. They don't tolerate any sort of discussion whatsoever if it ever criticizes the coach. Its like the coach is Dear Leader or something.

Saying that his resume since being here is consistent with what has been considered “good” here is not a straw man. It’s the truth

Also seeing that these same people disappear when we’ve won is not a straw man. It’s the truth.

You also now have some of them talking about replacements. Also not a straw man, it’s where they have moved the discussion.

 

[clones8232]

Reading is difficult, I know. Where did I say that? No I am not talking about a coaching change, I am talking about our next coach. We will have one, unless you think Prohm will be coaching at ISU for the rest of time.

Why the **** wouldn’t he. This is what is wrong with the fan base. Always thinking”when is the next bad thing happening.” We have a great program and a lot of coaches would love to be here.

 

[bluestarcyclone]

Saying that his resume since being here is consistent with what has been considered “good” here is not a straw man. It’s the truth

A resume is based on where things started.

Prohm started in probably the best position of any coach in Ames ever. The standard was raised. His job is to maintain and improve.

Also seeing that these same people disappear when we’ve won is not a straw man. It’s the truth.

Its your own imagination.

You also now have some of them talking about replacements. Also not a straw man, it’s where they have moved the discussion.

Steve Prohm won't be here forever. And people started talking about replacements precisely because people like you started demanding who they would hire instead.

 

[ISUChippewa]

Most people aren't talking about a coaching change. Almost no one is.

But plenty of people are bringing up straw men like this against anyone who brings even the slightest criticism.

Have any criticism, regardless of how valid (and i think there are plenty of valid criticisms of things that are consistently lacking over 4 years) and you get:

"YOURE TALKING ABOUT FIRING HIM?!?!?"
"OH MY GOD, YOURE FREAKING OUT BECAUSE WE DONT GET CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS EVERY YEAR!"
"YEAH, WELL WHO WOULD YOU HIRE"

Honestly, the people who counter-meltdown might be the worst people on the site. They don't tolerate any sort of discussion whatsoever if it ever criticizes the coach. Its like the coach is Dear Leader or something.

Well, when you're comparing Prohm to Paul Rhodes in a negative fashion, and I'm pretty sure that was you (and if it wasn't and I confused you with someone else I apologize), it's pretty damn hard to think that your criticism comes from a place of honesty or fairness.

 

[NoCreativity]

First, check out SPs record before you do that. It's actually quite impressive

I checked out his record, its not actually that impressive. He only went to 1 NCAA tournament in 4 years at Murray, and thats with having NBA point guards running his offense. The year he was hired they hadn't even made the tourney in 3 years at that point.

Most mid-major coaches that get promoted like that are hired from continued tourney appearances over multiple years, or runs to the Sweet 16 level with a mid major team.

Another thing I noticed is his teams were terrible defensively at Murray, his first year they had a Top 30 defense, beyond that they were complete dumpster fires, so its actually not surprising to me his team is struggling to stop dribble penetration this year.

 

[bluestarcyclone]

Well, when you're comparing Prohm to Paul Rhodes in a negative fashion, and I'm pretty sure that was you (and if it wasn't and I confused you with someone else I apologize), it's pretty damn hard to think that your criticism comes from a place of honesty or fairness.

There's that straw man again.

I was comparing the people defending rhoads and mcermott to the bitter end to the people who refuse to allow any and all criticism whatsoever of Prohm.

When your default position is "The coach is always perfect until the day he is fired\leaves and i'm going to light anyone up who says otherwise" it is you that doesnt come from a place of honesty\fairness.

 

[Cat Stevens]

A resume is based on where things started.

Prohm started in probably the best position of any coach in Ames ever. The standard was raised. His job is to maintain and improve.


Its your own imagination.


Steve Prohm won't be here forever. And people started talking about replacements precisely because people like you started demanding who they would hire instead.

This is funny. Where were these people when we won at k state? Nowhere to be found yet again.

Two, it would seem he’s maintained the program, as he transitioned to his own teams.

And three, I didn’t ask for any names. It was a response to a vague assertion from an anti prohmer.

This is the ridiculousness that’s happening. This isn’t the end of the McCarney or rhoads eras where the program was imploded. This isn’t the end of the McDermott era where the program had no hope. This team is going dancing, and has enough young talent to see a future that could grow and be better

 

[ISUChippewa]

There's that straw man again.

I was comparing the people defending rhoads and mcermott to the bitter end to the people who refuse to allow any and all criticism whatsoever of Prohm.

When your default position is "The coach is always perfect until the day he is fired\leaves and i'm going to light anyone up who says otherwise" it is you that doesnt come from a place of honesty\fairness.

Fair enough.

Speaking of strawmen, good thing that I have never wrote that Prohm "is always perfect." I challenge you to find where I've ever written those words.

 

[NWICY]

I would be interested in how people view the Iowa State program/job compared to others in the Big 12. Facilities, recruiting, fanbases, etc.

I think many of us view Iowa State as the 3rd most desirable program in the Big 12 behind Kansas and Texas. I also know that we generally pay coaches including Fred and Steve in the lower 3rd of the league. Maybe we are the 7th or 8th most desirable program in the league and should be ecstatic to get to the NCAA tournament 75% of the time.

Just interested where everyone thinks the Iowa State program ranks.

Fanbase I'll call us #2 behind KU, KSU 3rd, TT4th on a good yr, OSU could get to 3rd if they get good again their support is beyond terrible right now. Tx,OU,BU,TCU none of them care about BB Tx fans will show up if they've got a FF caliber team or if KU comes to town

Coaching pay speaks for itself whatever the ranking are we are.

Facilities I have no idea but the Sukup center certainly isn't chopped liver and the new facilities for nutrition and studies for all athletes (I think that is still on the agenda?). Will only add to a solid foundation. We'll probably never keep up with the whistles and bells of Tx and OU but they certainly aren't bad.

My own personal opinion would put us in the top 4 anywhere from 2-4 depending on what you want to judge but it's all subjective. For BB it's hard to put anyone but KU in the top spot.

 

[bluestarcyclone]

This is funny. Where were these people when we won at k state? Nowhere to be found yet again.

Again, your imagination. Or maybe they didnt post because people like you sit around and jerk each other off going after those same people who posted reasonable criticisms after every win.

Two, it would seem he’s maintained the program, as he transferred to his own teams.

Id argue we've taken a step down

By big 12 tournament seed order,
Hoiberg's last 4 years were 3, 5, 4, 2
Prohm's: 6, 4, 10, 5 (i'm thinking we'll tie with baylor and lose that tiebreaker due to being swept)

Even excluding last year, we're a tick down in this metric, going from averaging a 3-4 seed to averaging a 5 seed.

And three, I didn’t ask for any names. It was a response to a vague assertion from an anti prohmer.

Names were asked for, in this thread. That's why people were putting them out there.

This team is going dancing, and has enough young talent to see a future that could grow and be better

So i guess criticism can't happen as long as we're one of the best 40-50 teams in the country?

Just making the tournament is not and should not be the measure of success.

 

[madguy30]

I checked out his record, its not actually that impressive. He only went to 1 NCAA tournament in 4 years at Murray, and thats with having NBA point guards running his offense. The year he was hired they hadn't even made the tourney in 3 years at that point.

Most mid-major coaches that get promoted like that are hired from continued tourney appearances over multiple years, or runs to the Sweet 16 level with a mid major team.

Another thing I noticed is his teams were terrible defensively at Murray, his first year they had a Top 30 defense, beyond that they were complete dumpster fires, so its actually not surprising to me his team is struggling to stop dribble penetration this year.

So you want Shaka Smart?

At Murray State you generally have to win the conference tourney to go to the NCAA tourney.

He won 20+ games each season and won their division but got bounced which happens to lots of teams.

 

[rochclone]

Saying that his resume since being here is consistent with what has been considered “good” here is not a straw man. It’s the truth

Also seeing that these same people disappear when we’ve won is not a straw man. It’s the truth.

You also now have some of them talking about replacements. Also not a straw man, it’s where they have moved the discussion.

To be clear the only reason why a list was given is because ISUChippewa was badgering someone for it. Prohm is here until he decides to move on or he misses the NCAA tournament 3 years in a row. Neither seems incredibly likely at this point so perhaps we will have stability for the next decade.

 

[Cat Stevens]

Again, your imagination. Or maybe they didnt post because people like you sit around and jerk each other off going after those same people who posted reasonable criticisms after every win.



Id argue we've taken a step down

By big 12 tournament seed order,
Hoiberg's last 4 years were 3, 5, 4, 2
Prohm's: 6, 4, 10, 5 (i'm thinking we'll tie with baylor and lose that tiebreaker due to being swept)

Even excluding last year, we're a tick down in this metric, going from averaging a 3-4 seed to averaging a 5 seed.



Names were asked for, in this thread. That's why people were putting them out there.



So i guess criticism can't happen as long as we're one of the best 40-50 teams in the country?

Just making the tournament is not and should not be the measure of success.

Ahh. So we have taken a step down in the program.

You know, I think you are a thoughtful poster. But if you are going to make assertions with no context, then i will respectfully disagree with you, and move on.

 

[Cat Stevens]

So you want Shaka Smart?

At Murray State you generally have to win the conference tourney to go to the NCAA tourney.

He won 20+ games each season and won their division but got bounced which happens to lots of teams.

Yeah, one bid leagues are a crapshoot. But that’s not their point.

 

[Cat Stevens]

To be clear the only reason why a list was given is because ISUChippewa was badgering someone for it. Prohm is here until he decides to move on or he misses the NCAA tournament 3 years in a row. Neither seems incredibly likely at this point so perhaps we will have stability for the next decade.

I’m not even concerned about your list, I offered my opinions on the only red flags on it. It’s pointless because when the time comes it will be T.J.’s job, and everyone will be happy.

I would caution to see if stays another year there after Daum graduates. He walked into a great situation, and now it will be his time to leave.

 

[psyclone51]

I'm feeling better now. Armchair coaches pop up everywhere. As an example, the Hawks lost to Okie State and some fans are calling for Brands to be fired. Can you believe it. They are 14-1 and want to fire Brands. Personally, I don't like the guy, but fire him - for one loss - to a really solid team? Wow.

Oh, and for those who like to take shots at Prohm, help me to understand something. It is okay for you to criticize coach, but when someone criticizes you, you get angry. Don't you just love freedom of speech. My speech, that is. Carry on.