This is why Prohm must go........

Discussion in 'Mens Basketball' started by ohly2311, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. ISUChippewa

    ISUChippewa Well-Known Member

    Apr 10, 2006
    4,974
    578
    113
    Ratings:
    +2,787 / 120 / -1
    I'll split the middle here and agree with both of you on your respective points. Those one year players that were mentioned were only at ISU for one forgettable season and the other guys mentioned that came in as freshmen just haven't contributed the way we hoped they would or are not even with the program altogether. Both go a long ways towards contributing to the roster we have now, which from top to bottom clearly isn't up to par to compete in the Big 12.
     
  2. KKramer

    KKramer Active Member

    Sep 25, 2017
    536
    103
    43
    Male
    Ratings:
    +727 / 51 / -1
    Giving him an extension would completely alienate Pollard from the fanbase at this point. When you give him an extension after this year it tells fans he's doing a good job, even if the intent is to instill confidence in the coach from the administration.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Cat Stevens

    Cat Stevens Well-Known Member

    Mar 7, 2017
    9,401
    1,034
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +7,708 / 677 / -14

    Wow speaking of putting words in mouths.

    can you link a post stating anyone said Steve is a better coach?

    the point always has been for the Fred ball washers that he left, wanted to leave, tried for several years to leave, and that should be a huge part of the narrative instead of defending his honor. In fact the delay of his just leaving, did have impacts on the program going forward.

    and of course the abject failure he was in the nba, being rated the worst coach in the league by gm’s for a his last two seasons in Chicago.

    I consider him far more Tim floyd mercenary than loyal son forever true.

    if that bothers you, that you need to pretend he didn’t get just as much from Iowa State as he gave as a coach, that’s a different story
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. dahliaclone

    dahliaclone Well-Known Member

    Mar 4, 2007
    3,651
    795
    113
    Minneapolis
    Ratings:
    +2,639 / 133 / -2
    I've been a Prohm supporter and still am but I now have no desire to defend him like I have in the past. He does really need to start showing his abilities next year. To me, I find it extremely unsettling that almost none of the players have gotten better year over year. Can you name more than Tyrese that has actually shown vast improvement under his coaching? It's hard for me to find...any.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. ISUChippewa

    ISUChippewa Well-Known Member

    Apr 10, 2006
    4,974
    578
    113
    Ratings:
    +2,787 / 120 / -1
    Well, it is nice and refreshing to know that I am not the only one to engage in hyperbole from time to time...

    Anyway, I don't think even JP would be that tone deaf to extend Prohm's contract after this season, unless we go on a miracle run, win the Big 12 tournament and spring the traditional 13 vs. 4 first round upset, which I don't think is going to happen.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. ISUChippewa

    ISUChippewa Well-Known Member

    Apr 10, 2006
    4,974
    578
    113
    Ratings:
    +2,787 / 120 / -1
    I think Deonte Burton showed a lot of improvement from Year 1 to Year 2. I also think that both Matt Thomas and Monte had really good seasons under Prohm.

    Of course, the natural expectation for 3 or 4 year players is that they are always going to get better every succeeding season as they finish out their college careers, so I don't think it's the biggest feather in the cap for guys to improve necessarily, but I can't say that I would have ever expected Matt Thomas to find a home, for however long it lasts for, in the NBA.
     
  7. KKramer

    KKramer Active Member

    Sep 25, 2017
    536
    103
    43
    Male
    Ratings:
    +727 / 51 / -1
    Could argue Deonte Burton and Solomon Young. Shayok was a completely different player under Prohm than he was under Tony Bennett, but that's likely more due to the system.
     
  8. Clonefan32

    Clonefan32 Well-Known Member

    Nov 19, 2008
    15,013
    2,075
    113
    Ratings:
    +10,528 / 390 / -7
    I think it's difficult with the way Prohm came in to really determine this. Guys like Georges, Matt, Burton and Monte-- did they improve, or was it just the natural progression of a good player? So if the question is whether guys he recruited have come in and gotten markedly better, I'm not sure there is anyone other than Tyrese. At the same time, however, it's not like there was an abundance of playing time to go around those first few years, so the sample size is relatively low. The true test would be how guys like Jackson, Grill, Foster, Blackwell, etc. are able to develop now that Fred's left-overs have all moved on. But I'm not sure he will be here long enough to really test that theory.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  9. Cat Stevens

    Cat Stevens Well-Known Member

    Mar 7, 2017
    9,401
    1,034
    113
    Male
    Ratings:
    +7,708 / 677 / -14

    Sigh. Abdel Nader. Naz

    remember when Matt Thomas was considered a bust after his sophomore year?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Halincandenza

    Halincandenza Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2018
    3,009
    374
    83
    Male
    Ratings:
    +3,836 / 402 / -23
    I think too much is put on coaches developing guys. You can give guys tools or tell them what they need to get better but if they don't put in the work, they won't get better. Guys like Morris, Niang Thomas etc put in the work. Guys like Lewis haven't. Young has put in work, Haliburton. Some though just have limited skills/talent and can't get much better, i.e. Nixon, Beverly etc.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. ISUChippewa

    ISUChippewa Well-Known Member

    Apr 10, 2006
    4,974
    578
    113
    Ratings:
    +2,787 / 120 / -1
    Absolutely correct. I knew there were a couple of guys I was missing.
     
  12. heitclone

    heitclone Well-Known Member

    Jun 21, 2009
    10,836
    1,101
    113
    Male
    Recreation Therapist
    Way up there
    Ratings:
    +5,926 / 209 / -4
    To me, this speaks to the culture within our program. They raved about the culture Beard has created in Lubbock during the game Saturday, the guys you mentioned who put in the work, came up in a much stronger program culture than the current squad. Tech is built different that our teams from the early part of the 10's but you could see the same fire those teams used to play with. They played hard the entire game, were beating us to loose balls, they were giving the ball up to get teammates a better shot and every time one of them had the ball, they were looking to make something happen. It looked like they were playing for each other. These are all areas we struggle. Those things all start with leadership, that needs to come from the coaching staff and veteran players.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  13. Cyclone90

    Cyclone90 Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 2007
    1,466
    36
    48
    Male
    Johnston, IA
    Ratings:
    +44 / 0 / -0
    Neither is going to happen. He's already signed through 24-25, five more seasons. He wouldn't be getting another extension even if he had a good season. His buyout is half what's left on those five years too so he's going to be here next season like it or not.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. AuH2O

    AuH2O Well-Known Member

    Sep 7, 2013
    3,363
    640
    113
    Ratings:
    +3,838 / 104 / -2
    If you simply apply a team scoring avg. adjustment Shayok scores about 11 ppg. You can say he was a better fit in ISU's system, but when Shayok decided to go to ISU, nobody would've predicted he'd score 19 ppg and be an All-American. He was night and day better from his UVa days, and it isn't simply because ISU played faster.

    Thomas made a huge jump from So. to Jr. He become a really good two-way player. Nader was logging DNPs prior to Prohm, then went on to the NBA. Over 2 seasons at Marquette Burton averaged 6.5 ppg.

    How much you want to attribute to Prohm or the players themselves improving with experience and time is up to you. But all of these players made step-change improvements under Prohm vs. their pre-Prohm careers.

    There were certainly players that stagnated and even some that regressed, too. This season has been a massive failure, but I don't think we need to revise history and say that guys haven't gotten better under Prohm. I do think mostly what you see with the guys that made big jumps is they are score-first guys with guard skills and length that need the ball in their hands, particularly Shayok, Nader, and Burton. I think this is Prohm's sweetspot, and he really didn't have that this year. As great as Tyrese is, he needs a roster of shooters and pick and roll finishers around him to be at his best. I think Wigginton or THT could've fit that bill well.

    Ultimately it's up to the coach to either ensure the roster fits his style or adjust his style. I'm hoping Bolton can make a big jump with both finishing more consistently, improving his reads and passing. Otherwise I think expecting a guy like Johnson or Blackwell to step in and fill that role seems to be asking too much.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. VeloClone

    VeloClone Well-Known Member

    Jan 19, 2010
    34,423
    5,366
    113
    Male
    Brooklyn Park, MN
    Ratings:
    +19,139 / 295 / -4
    Love the avatar, 90. I still have that issue somewhere.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Cyclad

    Cyclad Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2006
    1,275
    323
    83
    Ratings:
    +1,532 / 120 / -1
    I agree with this commentary. Fred was in it for Fred - #1. I am sure he cares about ISU, but more about his career. He did great, but did leave us in a less than ideal position. He did leave us with some great players but a pretty dry pipeline.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. NWICY

    NWICY Well-Known Member

    Sep 2, 2012
    12,440
    2,653
    113
    Ratings:
    +8,018 / 193 / -3
    It's a split show with both MBB and WBB. I think though they may have dropped the call in part and take tweets? At least that is what JW was talking about when I listened last wk. Tried to find it tonight but couldn't locate it.
     
  18. Land Shark

    Land Shark Active Member

    Apr 6, 2006
    433
    164
    43
    Ratings:
    +625 / 59 / -7
    The answer is yes
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. ManBearClone

    ManBearClone Well-Known Member

    Apr 29, 2010
    2,018
    238
    63
    Ratings:
    +785 / 18 / -3
    He kept trying to pull away to take a seat. Take it as you may.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. WhoISthis

    WhoISthis Active Member

    Oct 6, 2010
    362
    53
    28
    Ratings:
    +316 / 14 / -0
    Pretty standard for that context.

    That said, at times it sure does seem as though there is a disconnect between the staff and players as measured by the execution on the court.
     

Share This Page