Royce White on ESPN today
- Thread starter TXCyclones
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For example the procedure might be the employee's private physician works with a team physician on what accommodations would help the employee and would not significantly adversely affect the employer.
That would be totally fine. That’s the easy part, though. The hard part would be agreeing on time missed and issues like that. You can’t plan for a bad day. You can try to put them in the best possible place to succeed, sure. But mental health is so different than a regular injury. It can pop up at any time. It would just require a lot of work and a lot of fine lines where you’d ask “is this fair to the player?” or “is this fair to the team?” and would have a lot of subjective answers.
That’s kinda why I was interested in his personal problems and what helped him succeed at ISU and not the NBA?
The point is neither the easy part nor the hard part were even attempted.
I have a hard time believing the Rockets and others didn’t give it an honest try. Why would they draft him in Rd 1 and not try to make it work?
Huh? Not sure exactly what you are saying here.
I get where’s he’s coming from, and mental is something that needs to be examined a ton further. But as an employer, how much responsibility do you have to make sure every need is met? How much of that is on the person and how much is on the employer?
Having listened to Royce I have learned some things.
The NBA and NBPA have many agreed upon, defined policies and procedures. These range from rules governing game play to conduct on/off the court and anywhere in between. There are even provisions for maintaining the 'image' of the players and the league as a whole - from dress, to conduct, to product endorsement, etc.
Policies exist that are centered around medical issues (centered around injury) that prevent teams from forcing a player to use a certain doctor to treat or repair an injury. The obvious conflict of interest exists - the team implicitly pressures the 'team' physician to clear a player or downplay the severity of an injury in an effort to force a player to return early. Seeking a second opinion, which the team must allow and factor into return-to-play decisions is a positive - mainly for the player. An ill-diagnosed injury and quicker than advised return could shorten a player's career. The absence of the 'outside' opinion afforded to the players could be taken to a Machiavellian extreme - the team doctor says player X is fit to return, yet player X insists there's still something wrong and refuses to play, and then is eventually fired by the team for breach of contract when he doesn't return as prescribed by the team doctor. This is loosely tangent to the Wesley Johnson situation here at ISU - team doctors missed the stress fracture, coach begins pressuring Johnson to return and 'gut it out', issue remains for the player and ultimately a second opinion is gathered and relationships were terminated.
There are no such policies defined for other medical issues, in this case mental health. There are no provisions for dealing with depression, anxiety, panic or any other issues on the mental health spectrum. As posters in this thread are well aware, this was discovered by Royce when he was with Houston, and was essentially a non-starter for him. The team, the league, and the player's union were not interested in having a dialogue and moving to remedy this absence of a policy. They told him many things in many different ways why "No" was their answer regarding discussions of developing a policy. The sides aligned with the league viewed it as a Pandora's box type scenario they probably didn't care to understand. The NBA knows there are an endless supply of players willing to play and who are agreeable to the current policies. If Royce needed to be marginalized and let go it would be bad for Houston who used a draft pick, but eventually he would be replaced by someone who either didn't need the services or wouldn't take a hard-line and public stance on the issue.
This is where some folks here on the board get upset and "c'mon Royce, just define your version of the policy." If you had paid close attention, Royce has advocated for a policy that parallels the injury policy. He would like to have teams respect the recommendations of his own chosen mental health professional(s) rather than one appointed or chosen by the team and factor both opinions into a play/no-play decisions similar to physical injury. He would like to see services available - from counseling and preventative care to maintenance and medical treatment for mental health.
We've seen other players admit to struggles, and Cleveland head coach Tyronn Lue (c'mon isn't it really Lebron?) took a leave for apparent mental health problems, though he won't go as far as calling them that - "I have had chest pains and other troubling symptoms, compounded by a loss of sleep, throughout the year. Despite a battery of tests, there have been no conclusions as to what the exact issue is."
Royce has been told to 'shut up and dribble' by several people, including posters here on CF. They say, play 10+ years in the NBA and make an All Star team or two and then talk about this stuff. I don't disagree, and Chris got Royce to admit that maybe things would've been different for his NBA career had he taken that path. That 'maybe' was quickly followed up with an 'on the other hand' he is comfortable with how things turned out, so only Royce knows to what degree he agrees with play-first-advocate-later approach. For certain he believes the stance he has taken has influenced others to come forward or seek help, and maybe in his eyes this is a bigger gift for society than playing basketball ever would be.
Perhaps Royce not explicitly stating his policy is a wise move on his part. After all, stating a policy would mean now he has to defend it. It seems to me a poor position to start negotiations from, especially when the league and player's association are not willing to entertain the need for talk on the subject and have all the time to set up defense of why they can't/won't do some things. The idea may be wait till both sides are willing to come to the table and talk things over before getting into specifics. From what Royce has said in interviews, one could piece together what high level points he is advocating for.
I do wonder why things worked out so well during his time at ISU. I don't think the university has a spelled out mental health policy or procedure. I'd be interested to learn if there is one. Obviously Royce had some accommodations, and an understanding was reached between CFH and the athletic department with Royce. Perhaps the more strictly business relationship of the NBA was a factor vs the college relationship. Or it could have been the money - it's easier to be agreeable when you're a broke college student. Or Royce didn't feel the same level of respect/comfort with the organization in Houston. Or... Or... It's a shame as I do believe he's got loads of talent and it would've been interesting to see how exactly it stacked up - is he truly better than player X, Y, or Z? We will probably never know.
The NBA and NBPA have many agreed upon, defined policies and procedures. These range from rules governing game play to conduct on/off the court and anywhere in between. There are even provisions for maintaining the 'image' of the players and the league as a whole - from dress, to conduct, to product endorsement, etc.
Policies exist that are centered around medical issues (centered around injury) that prevent teams from forcing a player to use a certain doctor to treat or repair an injury. The obvious conflict of interest exists - the team implicitly pressures the 'team' physician to clear a player or downplay the severity of an injury in an effort to force a player to return early. Seeking a second opinion, which the team must allow and factor into return-to-play decisions is a positive - mainly for the player. An ill-diagnosed injury and quicker than advised return could shorten a player's career. The absence of the 'outside' opinion afforded to the players could be taken to a Machiavellian extreme - the team doctor says player X is fit to return, yet player X insists there's still something wrong and refuses to play, and then is eventually fired by the team for breach of contract when he doesn't return as prescribed by the team doctor. This is loosely tangent to the Wesley Johnson situation here at ISU - team doctors missed the stress fracture, coach begins pressuring Johnson to return and 'gut it out', issue remains for the player and ultimately a second opinion is gathered and relationships were terminated.
There are no such policies defined for other medical issues, in this case mental health. There are no provisions for dealing with depression, anxiety, panic or any other issues on the mental health spectrum. As posters in this thread are well aware, this was discovered by Royce when he was with Houston, and was essentially a non-starter for him. The team, the league, and the player's union were not interested in having a dialogue and moving to remedy this absence of a policy. They told him many things in many different ways why "No" was their answer regarding discussions of developing a policy. The sides aligned with the league viewed it as a Pandora's box type scenario they probably didn't care to understand. The NBA knows there are an endless supply of players willing to play and who are agreeable to the current policies. If Royce needed to be marginalized and let go it would be bad for Houston who used a draft pick, but eventually he would be replaced by someone who either didn't need the services or wouldn't take a hard-line and public stance on the issue.
This is where some folks here on the board get upset and "c'mon Royce, just define your version of the policy." If you had paid close attention, Royce has advocated for a policy that parallels the injury policy. He would like to have teams respect the recommendations of his own chosen mental health professional(s) rather than one appointed or chosen by the team and factor both opinions into a play/no-play decisions similar to physical injury. He would like to see services available - from counseling and preventative care to maintenance and medical treatment for mental health.
We've seen other players admit to struggles, and Cleveland head coach Tyronn Lue (c'mon isn't it really Lebron?) took a leave for apparent mental health problems, though he won't go as far as calling them that - "I have had chest pains and other troubling symptoms, compounded by a loss of sleep, throughout the year. Despite a battery of tests, there have been no conclusions as to what the exact issue is."
Royce has been told to 'shut up and dribble' by several people, including posters here on CF. They say, play 10+ years in the NBA and make an All Star team or two and then talk about this stuff. I don't disagree, and Chris got Royce to admit that maybe things would've been different for his NBA career had he taken that path. That 'maybe' was quickly followed up with an 'on the other hand' he is comfortable with how things turned out, so only Royce knows to what degree he agrees with play-first-advocate-later approach. For certain he believes the stance he has taken has influenced others to come forward or seek help, and maybe in his eyes this is a bigger gift for society than playing basketball ever would be.
Perhaps Royce not explicitly stating his policy is a wise move on his part. After all, stating a policy would mean now he has to defend it. It seems to me a poor position to start negotiations from, especially when the league and player's association are not willing to entertain the need for talk on the subject and have all the time to set up defense of why they can't/won't do some things. The idea may be wait till both sides are willing to come to the table and talk things over before getting into specifics. From what Royce has said in interviews, one could piece together what high level points he is advocating for.
I do wonder why things worked out so well during his time at ISU. I don't think the university has a spelled out mental health policy or procedure. I'd be interested to learn if there is one. Obviously Royce had some accommodations, and an understanding was reached between CFH and the athletic department with Royce. Perhaps the more strictly business relationship of the NBA was a factor vs the college relationship. Or it could have been the money - it's easier to be agreeable when you're a broke college student. Or Royce didn't feel the same level of respect/comfort with the organization in Houston. Or... Or... It's a shame as I do believe he's got loads of talent and it would've been interesting to see how exactly it stacked up - is he truly better than player X, Y, or Z? We will probably never know.
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