***Official 2023 Chicago Cubs Thread***

[1UNI2ISU]

I'm pretty sure there were several of us on here who mentioned this very thing in the Cubs 2022 thread

My post from just after he went to the Cardinals:

kinda depends on how well you think he ages. I think the Cubs were smart to move on.

Considering that was the best contract he could get on the open market, seems many other teams agree.

One thing I'll be looking at is the STL staff ERA next year as compared to the last few years and the Cubs staff ERA compared to the last few years.

My belief is Contreras was so bad at game management that he made a noticeable difference in how many runs the Cubs gave up.


Also, you liked the post so I assume you agreed at the time lol

100%. I just didn't expect it to manifest itself so immediately. LOL.

 

[CYdTracked]

I'm pretty sure there were several of us on here who mentioned this very thing in the Cubs 2022 thread

My post from just after he went to the Cardinals:

kinda depends on how well you think he ages. I think the Cubs were smart to move on.

Considering that was the best contract he could get on the open market, seems many other teams agree.

One thing I'll be looking at is the STL staff ERA next year as compared to the last few years and the Cubs staff ERA compared to the last few years.

My belief is Contreras was so bad at game management that he made a noticeable difference in how many runs the Cubs gave up.


Also, you liked the post so I assume you agreed at the time lol

Cards pitching is a dumpster fire and his deficiencies handling a pitching staff probably are not helping matters. Also look at how little interest he got at the trade deadline even with the Cubs basically using him as a DH for awhile to keep him healthy. There is something there that other teams have concerns with too otherwise he would have been traded for a decent haul at the deadline and he didn't seem to have a lot of offers to choose from in free agency either.

 

[BigJCy]

 

[BigJCy]

 

[1UNI2ISU]

So is it Wisdom to the IL with an 'injury' or Velazquez to Des Moines to get regular ABs?

 

[Rabbuk]

So is it Wisdom to the IL with an 'injury' or Velazquez to Des Moines to get regular ABs?

Sounds like Nelson

 

[CycloneErik]

Sounds like Nelson

Willie, or the band?

 

[1UNI2ISU]

Sounds like Nelson

That's the right move. He needs to play everyday.

Side note--Has he passed Davis as a prospect?

 

[Rabbuk]

That's the right move. He needs to play everyday.

Side note--Has he passed Davis as a prospect?

I'm not as high on davis as other people are I feel like Nelson's floor is a lot higher.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I'm not as high on davis as other people are I feel like Nelson's floor is a lot higher.

Davis not being able to play Center lowered the floor significantly.

 

[Cyforce]

Cards pitching is a dumpster fire and his deficiencies handling a pitching staff probably are not helping matters. Also look at how little interest he got at the trade deadline even with the Cubs basically using him as a DH for awhile to keep him healthy. There is something there that other teams have concerns with too otherwise he would have been traded for a decent haul at the deadline and he didn't seem to have a lot of offers to choose from in free agency either.

Be nice if we could fleece them for Barnhart at the deadline.

 

[Rabbuk]

Be nice if we could fleece them for Barnhart at the deadline.

We trade them Barnhart and they got 1 whole catcher from the cubs when combined with contreras

 

[BigJCy]

UGH

 

[clonebb]

Left hamstring tightness.

 

[NoCreativity]

Wisdom is such an idiot. 1 out and he's worried about a guy going home instead of turning a double play.

 

[BigJCy]

Watch, the Cubs will be the Cardinals "get right" series.

 

[JM4CY]

Not a cub fan but Went to Wrigleyville for the first time last weekend. That place is awesome.

 

[tm3308]

I'm not as high on davis as other people are I feel like Nelson's floor is a lot higher.

He's fallen on my ranking recently. Injuries definitely played a big role, but he's really struggled at AAA. At the moment, this is what my OF prospect rankings look like:

1. Alcantara (I think he's gonna be a *stud*)
2. PCA
3. Velasquez
4. Canario
5. Davis

Alcantara and PCA are really close, IMO, and I think Velasquez and Canario are similarly close (just a gap between PCA and Velasquez). If the Cubs can get two of those five to pan out and trade one or two for MLB pieces, I'll be thrilled.

 

[tm3308]

Not a cub fan but Went to Wrigleyville for the first time last weekend. That place is awesome.

The bleachers are the best place to watch a baseball game, and it's not even close. Unless you're a Cardinals fan, then maybe not so much lol.

 

[tm3308]

Cards pitching is a dumpster fire and his deficiencies handling a pitching staff probably are not helping matters. Also look at how little interest he got at the trade deadline even with the Cubs basically using him as a DH for awhile to keep him healthy. There is something there that other teams have concerns with too otherwise he would have been traded for a decent haul at the deadline and he didn't seem to have a lot of offers to choose from in free agency either.

Honestly, all of this has had me going down the rabbit hole on Baseball Reference, looking at Cubs pitchers' splits by catcher. And wow, his bat an arm had most of us glossing over *a lot*. I think by probably around 2018 or 2019, most fans could acknowledge his issues framing, but there's no way that explains all of it.

Just looking into guys' splits by catcher, and it's jarring, even going back years. Arrieta, Hammel, Darvish, Steele, the list goes on. All significantly worse statistically when Contreras was the one catching them. Some of that can probably be explained by smaller sample sizes for some of those battery combinations, but when it's showing up year after year, that's harder to hand-wave.