Bubu Thread

[BWRhasnoAC]

I enjoy all arguments, because there is always something you can learn from a disagreement, but I seem to be learning that many people are assuming that Bubu has some guilt in this despite his charges being dropped. This countries legal system is innocent until proven guilty. So he MUST be innocent at this point.

 

[Judoka]

Unless it comes up in civil court (Bubu suing her, for example), or she is arrested for falsifying evidence (I think that ship has sailed), her name will probably not be officially announced.

The only purpose naming her would have right now is retaliation. That doesn't help Bubu or anyone else, so maybe it's best that she remain unidentified publicly unless she ends up in a courtroom on the defendant side of the table.

 

[IAStubborn]

Actually, it is. His scholarship could have just not been renewed. Once his scholarship was renewed, it was likely not okay to remove him from the team in the method they did. Thus Bubu was entitled to Judicial Review.



You are wrong. The appeal to the Iowa Supreme Court has nothing to do with Bubu personally or Basketball in general. It has everything to do with whether the court has the ability to stay a university decision pending judicial review of that decision.

This is more correct. It is actually about whether a stay was appropriate in this instance not whether it is ever ok. The right to issue a stay of a university decision has already been established but should meet the 4 part test. They are arguing the judge incorrectly applied that test and erred in the information used to make his determination of fact in this case.

 

[jkclone]

Unless it comes up in civil court (Bubu suing her, for example), or she is arrested for falsifying evidence (I think that ship has sailed), her name will probably not be officially announced.

The only purpose naming her would have right now is retaliation. That doesn't help Bubu or anyone else, so maybe it's best that she remain unidentified publicly unless she ends up in a courtroom on the defendant side of the table.

While I generally agree I also don't think we should say it doesn't matter if you lie we will protect your identity. It kind of is like the referee thing. While we want to protect them from retaliation we also don't want to not hold them responsible for their actions.

There really isn't a great way to do it.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

How about you just focus on facts? Evidence was fabricated. The alj deemed the penalties "groundless" and the most recent rulings criticized leath and the BoR in their handling of the case. It was admitted that no additional info was used to change the decision. At what point can you start presuming Bubu's innocence?

We don't know all of the facts. It's hard to do anything but speculate without them.

You won't accept Leath's decision without knowing all of the facts but you will accept the ALJ's decision without knowing all of the facts? Maybe Leath made a poor decision or maybe the ALJ made a poor decision... We simply don't know. It's obvious that Leath's delay screwed things up badly and the most recent ruling had concerns about how this situation was handled. I'll have to go back and read the District Judge's ruling more closely.

I haven't proclaimed Bubu was anything but innocent in the eyes of the criminal courts.

 

[CycloneWanderer]

We don't know all of the facts. It's hard to do anything but speculate without them.

You won't accept Leath's decision without knowing all of the facts but you will accept the ALJ's decision without knowing all of the facts? Maybe Leath made a poor decision or maybe the ALJ made a poor decision... We simply don't know. It's obvious that Leath's delay screwed things up badly and the most recent ruling had concerns about how this situation was handled. I'll have to go back and read the District Judge's ruling more closely.

I haven't proclaimed Bubu was anything but innocent in the eyes of the criminal courts.

Without knowing "all the facts" is it not appropriate to assume innocence? Given that they didn't kick him out of the university, I tend to assume they didn't have a trove of secret evidence which dooms Bubu's case.

 

[bawbie]

I enjoy all arguments, because there is always something you can learn from a disagreement, but I seem to be learning that many people are assuming that Bubu has some guilt in this despite his charges being dropped. This countries legal system is innocent until proven guilty. So he MUST be innocent at this point.

Innocent in a court of law does NOT mean he can't be found in violation of the Student Code of Conduct, which is the case here. I haven't read anyone, or at least not many people, state that Bubu is guilty of a crime.

 

[Nycclone]

We don't know all of the facts. It's hard to do anything but speculate without them.

You won't accept Leath's decision without knowing all of the facts but you will accept the ALJ's decision without knowing all of the facts? Maybe Leath made a poor decision or maybe the ALJ made a poor decision... We simply don't know. It's obvious that Leath's delay screwed things up badly and the most recent ruling had concerns about how this situation was handled. I'll have to go back and read the District Judge's ruling more closely.

I haven't proclaimed Bubu was anything but innocent in the eyes of the criminal courts.

It is the Alj's job to determine preponderance of the evidence. I would trust his determination more so than Leath's. Correct me if I am wrong but I dont believe Leath has a jd. The alj does. So does the dcj. The dcj agreed with the alj. Leath, dcj and alj also know all the facts. In regards to questions of legality, yes, I def trust judges more so than a university prez.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Innocent in a court of law does NOT mean he can't be found in violation of the Student Code of Conduct, which is the case here. I haven't read anyone, or at least not many people, state that Bubu is guilty of a crime.

How many times does this have to be stated before it will sink in?

 

[bawbie]

It is the Alj's job to determine preponderance of the evidence. I would trust his determination more so than Leath's. Correct me if I am wrong but I dont believe Leath has a jd. The alj does. So does the dcj. The dcj agreed with the alj. Leath, dcj and alj also know all the facts. In regards to questions of legality, yes, I def trust judges more so than a university prez.

While this post is generally correct, the bolded part is not. The stay issued by the District Court Judge has been continually misinterpreted in this thread.

 

[IAStubborn]

What kills me here is this case is solely based on the testimony of someone who illegally fabricated evidence, provided false testimony that was proven to be false by two credible witnesses. Is it possible that a crime was still committed? Of course. But the accuser loses credibility as a witness at that point. No judge would ever allow a case regardless of eviduciary standard to be based on her testimony. She committed a crime which is also a violation of SCoC. I am fairly confident they are hanging their hat on Bubu admitting she was drunk and he slept with her. Judges get that is not the same as incapacitated but it is clear that ISU doesn't based on the language used in their appeal and the new findings leath added. They are essentially saying someone can claim they had legal ability to consent and thus not consent and have ISU say in fact they didnt. This element hasn't really been tested but if someone claims the consent they provided shouldn't have been granted because they were so intoxicated that is one thing but it is completly another when they do not make that claim and ISU does. This case was about assault and it seems he may have been charged of misconduct in the form of statutory rape due to incapacitation. The alcohol training and consent language leads me to believe this is the underlying issue here. What a mess. I think this is a bigger issue and one the court should rule on but unfortunately one that is creating a sideshow for this basketball team now.

 

[Cyfan1843]

How many times does this have to be stated before it will sink in?

What does the student code of conduct say about being arrested and proven innocent? I am sure many Student are still at ISU, participating in other extra curricular activities after spending a night in Nevada for indulging and they were truly guilty by law too.

 

[Spam]

What student code of conduct violation can you be guilty of which does not constitute a crime, and is not severe enough to be kicked out of the university, but is severe enough to be kicked off the team, but is not severe enough to be kicked off the team immediately, but is severe enough to be kicked off the team once the transfer deadline is up?

 

[PlanoClone]

What we have here is reverse athlete discrimination. If he violated the student code of conduct, why the hell is he still a student ON SCHOLARSHIP but can't play basketball? Normally it's the other way around...athletes getting the benefit of the doubt (and yes I'm generalizing here). What they are telling Bubu is "what you did is so bad you can't play basketball for ISU. But feel free to roam the campus amongst the other 30,000 students we have. You'll be fine with them."

Bottom line--Leath should have told him he wasn't welcome on the team when Palo still had a chance to transfer.

 

[bawbie]

There are main questions that I can't wrap my head around:

Is the reinstatement hearing in front of an Administrative Law Judge typical?

And how did this case end up getting appealed to Leath?

From seeing numerous other athletes, recently Gary and Irving, suspended and then return, I believe it is normal for the ALJ to hear their case and then reinstate them. But I haven't heard of any other case that has been appealed to the President.

Does anyone know the process for that appeal and who can make it and why?

 

[PlanoClone]

What student code of conduct violation can you be guilty of which does not constitute a crime, and is not severe enough to be kicked out of the university, but is severe enough to be kicked off the team, but is not severe enough to be kicked off the team immediately, but is severe enough to be kicked off the team once the transfer deadline is up?

Thank you. My thoughts exactly.

 

[capitalcityguy]

What does the student code of conduct say about being arrested and proven innocent? I am sure many Student are still at ISU, participating in other extra curricular activities after spending a night in Nevada for indulging and they were truly guilty by law too.

Does it matter?

The student conduct code addresses cheating on tests. There is no parallel law.

The two can operate independent of each other.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

How many times does this have to be stated before it will sink in?

My statement had nothing to do with him being guilty or innocent of the code of conduct, but more so to the ignorance of people speculating that ISU has some damning evidence on him being actually guilty.

 

[johnstoncy]

What student code of conduct violation can you be guilty of which does not constitute a crime, and is not severe enough to be kicked out of the university, but is severe enough to be kicked off the team, but is not severe enough to be kicked off the team immediately, but is severe enough to be kicked off the team once the transfer deadline is up?

Whatever Bubu did....

 

[Nycclone]

While this post is generally correct, the bolded part is not. The stay issued by the District Court Judge has been continually misinterpreted in this thread.

Maybe I need to re-read it. My memory of it is that the dcj cited the Alj's ruling in determining that bubu wasn't a threat to others.