Bubu Thread

[Cyclonestate78]

And you do? I thought this too and was giving Leathe the benefit of the doubt until a lot of information about this case came out in the last few weeks that answered the questions I had. I'm no longer buying the old "there are things you don't know" excuse to justify the injustice done to BuBu and the extreme bungling of this case by Leathe.

What information has come to light? We still don't have any idea what evidence or other information Leath had at his disposal when he came to his decision. Until those details come to light there is no way anyone can claim that his decision was wrong.

Can people claim the timing of his decision was poor? Absolutely. To claim that his decision and how he reached it was wrong is impossible to judge without knowing all of the relevant information he used to come to that decision.

 

[bawbie]

The difference between this and the Irving situation is an interesting question, and I agree that the statement wasn't the perfect PR move, but I hardly see either of those as reason to try to run off a very successful and well liked AD. This mess was made above JP's pay grade, he is just dealing with the cleanup.

Was the Irving decision appealed to the President?

I think the mere fact of the Appeal to the President sets the Bubu case apart.

 

[CYlent Bob]

If you also look at the code when it speaks of "seriousness of infractions" you see the final point listed...

4.1.4 Seriousness of Infractions

1. A violation of any provision of the conduct regulations will be regarded as more serious if:
   1. The conduct involves threatened or actual physical injury to another person, or endangers other persons;
   2. The conduct is willful or intentional;
   3. The conduct results in, contributes to or enhances the severity of a public disorder, group violence or a mass disturbance that involves conduct in violation of Section 4.2.10;
   4. The conduct involves interference with safety officials (police, fire and emergency medical responders) in the performance of their work;
   5. The conduct involves the use of drugs, alcohol or medicine to incapacitate a student's ability to give consent to participate in an activity;
   6. The same or similar conduct is repeated; or
   7. The conduct impairs other students' abilities to continue their education.

This leads me to ask the question... Did the alleged victim leave Iowa State University because of this incident and a fear of running into Bubu on campus? I don't know any details about her. Allegedly she no longer lives in the state of Iowa. Did she graduate? Did she transfer to another school?

Also in Bubu's situation a case could be made that it also hits on points 1, 2, and 5 as well.

I think another interpretation is that her own evidence tampering is what drove her to leave ISU.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

The two problems I have with JP is why was David Irving allowed back on the football team before his assault charges were dropped, while BuBu was not. Also why did he feel he had to make any statement about the judge's decision at all? Leathe didn't make a statement. If Leathe told JP to make the statement (which itself would show very poor leadership), why didn't he just say they didn't agree with the decision but would respect it? Why say he was disappointed BuBu was being re-instated and basically tell the court to stay out of our business. It was a very arrogant and poorly thought out statement that only served to create more of a divide between the administration and the basketball players, and very likely Fred himself.

Has it crossed your mind that Leath, JP, and Hoiberg as well as others in the administration at ISU know far more about this situation then you or I? JP is a pretty savvy guy isn't he? He can run a coaching search right under the media's nose and they have absolutely no clue what is going on... no leaks, no clues, no nothing. The guy runs a tight ship at ISU. Does JP strike you as a guy that would go out of his way to treat someone unfairly?

Do you think it's possible that Fred knows Bubu is never going to play at ISU ever again but can't be the guy that drops the hammer on him? All the players want Bubu back... they support him... they like him... So would it hurt Fred's credibility potentially with his players if he is the one that puts the final nail in Bubu's playing career at ISU? Ever thought that JP is possibly being the alleged "bad guy" so that Fred doesn't have to be and risk losing his team, risk losing respect of potential recruits, risk losing the lofty level of respect he has attained on a national level, etc...?

There are a lot of potential reasons this is playing out the way that it is and we may never know the actual reason why. To place blame on JP without knowing that specific reason is probably not the best judgment.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I think another interpretation is that her own evidence tampering is what drove her to leave ISU.

That possibility exists as well. We can't be sure about anything at this point.

 

[VeloClone]

Has it crossed your mind that Leath, JP, and Hoiberg as well as others in the administration at ISU know far more about this situation then you or I?

Why wasn't any of this extra information provided to either of the judges that have ruled in one form or another on this case? Does the administration have more information than they do? And if so, why?

 

[CYKOFAN]

The difference between this and the Irving situation is an interesting question, and I agree that the statement wasn't the perfect PR move, but I hardly see either of those as reason to try to run off a very successful and well liked AD. This mess was made above JP's pay grade, he is just dealing with the cleanup.

I haven't said anywhere that JP lose his job. I have said if this proceeds to trial and our mess becomes a national story as it already is becoming, it will hurt ISU basketball in particular and ISU sports in general. It's not far fetched at all to believe that if this mess slowly explodes in our face nationally, it could push Fred into the NBA. If that happens I believe the fan backlash would be severe and could cost somebody their job, because this whole situation was so avoidable and could have been handled so much better. It's also very reasonable for parents of recruits to question if the ISU A.D. would back their son if he gets in trouble and is found innocent. Something as innocent as a bad break up with a girlfriend could result in the girl accusing the athlete of a sexual crime, and even if the girl is found lying and charges dropped, the president might kick him off the squad, because he's done it before. How can anybody think that if this goes to trial and develops into a big national story, this won't be used against us in recruiting? And as the details of this case become more well known by the public, I'm guessing public opinion will be heavily against the way ISU has handled this. I just can't believe ISU officials, and that should include JP as a.d., couldn't see this coming months ago and try to get this settled before it got to this point.

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

I just can't believe ISU officials, and that should include JP as a.d., couldn't see this coming months ago and try to get this settled before it got to this point.

"At ISU the AD won't support you. Look what they did to an innocent Bubu Palo. Here at XYZ we have faith in you on and off the court and will stand by you should any false allegations arise."

Something that quick could ruin the entire momentum with recruits we've been building the past 5 years.

 

[notengonacho1]

What information has come to light? We still don't have any idea what evidence or other information Leath had at his disposal when he came to his decision. Until those details come to light there is no way anyone can claim that his decision was wrong.

Can people claim the timing of his decision was poor? Absolutely. To claim that his decision and how he reached it was wrong is impossible to judge without knowing all of the relevant information he used to come to that decision.

And no one can claim his decision was right either.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

Why wasn't any of this extra information provided to either of the judges that have ruled in one form or another on this case? Does the administration have more information than they do? And if so, why?

I would think the level of evidence needed to proceed to trial for the DA would be much higher then it would be for Leath to render a decision on if Bubu violated the student code of conduct. As far as the administration having "more" information I would assume they do. You and I don't know what evidence was collected and we don't even know the exact details of what transpired that night except for a very basic outline. I would suspect that during this process the administration at ISU would have had access to these things that the general public has not seen and probably won't ever see. That is what I mean by them having "more" information.

 

[Cyclonestate78]

And no one can claim his decision was right either.

Exactly.

 

[Die4Cy]

I suspect that somewhere along the way, Bubu admitted on the record to an explicit violation of the student code of conduct in some way (maybe minor, but definite) to a university official, and they really don't have a choice to let it slide, or the whole thing goes out the window.

The decision to let Bubu keep his scholly and finish school may actually be an effort to "split the baby" and see to it Palo gets something out of the mess other than an outright dismissal.

Palo, OTOH, may feel that since the other party attempted to manufacture a criminal case against him, this somehow mitigates whatever other student code violations may be at the root of this thing, even if he had admitted to them along the way.

I don't know. I do think that anyone alleging JP or even President Leath would deliberately allow the university to look bad out of a personal vendetta for Bubu Palo are probably not playing with a full deck.

 

[VeloClone]

I would think the level of evidence needed to proceed to trial for the DA would be much higher then it would be for Leath to render a decision on if Bubu violated the student code of conduct. As far as the administration having "more" information I would assume they do. You and I don't know what evidence was collected and we don't even know the exact details of what transpired that night except for a very basic outline. I would suspect that during this process the administration at ISU would have had access to these things that the general public has not seen and probably won't ever see. That is what I mean by them having "more" information.

Going to trial has nothing to do with it. As I understand the student code of conduct process the administrative law judge was part of that process and he ruled in Bubu's favor. Why wouldn't he have as much information as the administration has?

 

[CYKOFAN]

What information has come to light? We still don't have any idea what evidence or other information Leath had at his disposal when he came to his decision. Until those details come to light there is no way anyone can claim that his decision was wrong.

Can people claim the timing of his decision was poor? Absolutely. To claim that his decision and how he reached it was wrong is impossible to judge without knowing all of the relevant information he used to come to that decision.

I thought Leath had additional information that the ALJ didn't have. It turns out he didn't, and he reversed the ruling without talking to any of the parties or witnesses involved. He waited past the deadline so BuBu couldn't transfer (perhaps so BuBu's high gpa could be included with the team?). He didn't stop David Irving from returning to the football team "before" his assault charges were dropped after having treated BuBu just the opposite. It appears he ignored the fact that the girl lied to the county attorney and was caught fabricating evidence. Need I go on, because there's more. If he showed such poor judgment in so many areas of his handling this this case, forgive me if I think he also made a bad judgment by reversing the ruling of the ALJ when he was going by the same evidence, minus actually talking to the parties involved.

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

A University Goes To Court To Keep A Player Off The Team

 

[Cyclonestate78]

I haven't said anywhere that JP lose his job. I have said if this proceeds to trial and our mess becomes a national story as it already is becoming, it will hurt ISU basketball in particular and ISU sports in general. It's not far fetched at all to believe that if this mess slowly explodes in our face nationally, it could push Fred into the NBA. If that happens I believe the fan backlash would be severe and could cost somebody their job, because this whole situation was so avoidable and could have been handled so much better. It's also very reasonable for parents of recruits to question if the ISU A.D. would back their son if he gets in trouble and is found innocent. Something as innocent as a bad break up with a girlfriend could result in the girl accusing the athlete of a sexual crime, and even if the girl is found lying and charges dropped, the president might kick him off the squad, because he's done it before. How can anybody think that if this goes to trial and develops into a big national story, this won't be used against us in recruiting? And as the details of this case become more well known by the public, I'm guessing public opinion will be heavily against the way ISU has handled this. I just can't believe ISU officials, and that should include JP as a.d., couldn't see this coming months ago and try to get this settled before it got to this point.

How is Baylor's recruiting these days? Scott Drew threatened to have a recruit deported if he backed out on his commitment to Baylor and we aren't that far removed from Baylor's old coach Bliss covering up for one of his players that murdered one of his teammates. Last time I checked Baylor consistently gets higher rated recruits then Iowa State does. Think about it....

 

[Mtowncyclone13]

hopefully no one will get their panties in a bunch over this question but was the woman ever identified publically?

 

[CYKOFAN]

Why wasn't any of this extra information provided to either of the judges that have ruled in one form or another on this case? Does the administration have more information than they do? And if so, why?

True, and I believe if the administration does have additional information, they would have been required to provide it to the judges or face legal consequences. And I can see why some would like to lump Fred in with Leath and JP on this, but imo it's completely unfair to Fred. Last year when the charges were dropped Fred immediately welcomed BuBu back onto the team, started playing him, and was very complimentary of him. There has been no new information on his case that has come out since then, or ISU would have been required to supply it to the judge. Pretty good bet Fred is sick about how this has been handled.

 

[3TrueFans]

How is Baylor's recruiting these days? Scott Drew threatened to have a recruit deported if he backed out on his commitment to Baylor and we aren't that far removed from Baylor's old coach Bliss covering up for one of his players that murdered one of his teammates. Last time I checked Baylor consistently gets higher rated recruits then Iowa State does. Think about it....

Yeah but their recruits now only have 1 eye so...

 

[CYKOFAN]

How is Baylor's recruiting these days? Scott Drew threatened to have a recruit deported if he backed out on his commitment to Baylor and we aren't that far removed from Baylor's old coach Bliss covering up for one of his players that murdered one of his teammates. Last time I checked Baylor consistently gets higher rated recruits then Iowa State does. Think about it....

$$$$$$$$$ You can laugh at that if you want, but it's well known among other coaches. That was told to me by somebody who would know, but believe what you want.