Big 12 Refs Strike Again

[johnnydugouts]

i know i am in the minority, but it actually looked to me like MM got busted overplaying dribble drive...he was NOT expecting the pull up. it was a great move to shake free, regardless of whether he got a little help from the forearm.

bottom line is that this isnt a bad loss and everyone is going to overlook some hugely clutch shooting that put us in a position to win.

 

[Gunnerclone]

i know i am in the minority, but it actually looked to me like MM got busted overplaying dribble drive...he was NOT expecting the pull up. it was a great move to shake free, regardless of whether he got a little help from the forearm.

bottom line is that this isnt a bad loss and everyone is going to overlook some hugely clutch shooting that put us in a position to win.

Who is us?

 

[LutherBlue]

Worst call of the night is late in the game where Gathers pushed Niang, then went over Niangs back for the rebound, and Niang gets called for a foul. Thankfully Baylor missed the front end, but that was about as bad as the KU no charge lose ball foul.

That is the one I remember as well. He rode Georges almost out of bounds. If they call that, Georges goes to the line and probably makes one of two!!

 

[ribsnwhiskey]

i know i am in the minority, but it actually looked to me like MM got busted overplaying dribble drive...he was NOT expecting the pull up. it was a great move to shake free, regardless of whether he got a little help from the forearm.

bottom line is that this isnt a bad loss and everyone is going to overlook some hugely clutch shooting that put us in a position to win.

I am shocked, SHOCKED, that you feel this way.

Predictable ****** bag.

 

[johnnydugouts]

That was a textbook push off. The only way Cherry had space to shoot was because of it, which is the very definition of advantage-disadvantage. But I knew they weren't going to call it at the end of the game like that.

I disagree with this. Cherry's arm is extended from the time he turns the corner. he makes contact with MM, but he doesnt extend him arm with force at that point like you would see a running back do. I really think the push off is being overblown and it was just physics working against Monte.

 

[ISU_Clone_28]

But the problem with your argument is that the refs demonstrated all game that a pushoff like that wasn't getting called. It wasn't a last minute thing.

Were there numerous push off's like that throughout the game that were not being called? Honest question as I was taking care of the kids for the majority of the game so I was primarily listening to the game as it was on tv and watching here and there until the wife got home midway through the second half where I could watch it closer.

My main point of saying that was for the people saying that in the last seconds of the game you don't get that call. Maybe so, however if its a foul that would hypothetically be called in the first 5 seconds of the game then it should also still be a foul in the last 5 seconds of the game. From what I saw of some of the reach in fouls that were being called in the second half, it should have been obvious enough of a foul to warrant them calling the push off at the end.

 

[VeloClone]

i know i am in the minority, but it actually looked to me like MM got busted overplaying dribble drive...he was NOT expecting the pull up. it was a great move to shake free, regardless of whether he got a little help from the forearm.

bottom line is that this isnt a bad loss and everyone is going to overlook some hugely clutch shooting that put us in a position to win.

It wasn't a forearm, it was his hand with the arm fully extended. While the officials established that they were going to let Chery get away with extending his forearm to make space early in the game this is the first time in the game that it was a fully extended arm and hand. That has to be called. The whole attitude of not wanting the officials decide the game is stupid. If officials decide to not call obvious fouls at the end of the game they are still deciding the game by deciding to not make the correct call.

McKay's goaltend was close but pretty clearly the right call. Note that both refs in the picture made the same call immediately as well, not even looking at each other.

They established that they were going to usually let aggressive play in the post go, but there is no way that Gathers should have played that physical for the whole game without even a single foul. Dude was ridiculous. If you are going to allow a player to bang repeatedly on the defender to score at one end do not let him go down to the other end on the very next possession and draw a ticky tack charge. Try to be at least a little bit consistent. That being said he is good too.

Naz gets the game ball for keeping ISU in the game offensively. 5 for 5 from 3 with back to back NBA threes. That's just stupid good.

Regardless, the team showed a lot of grit coming from almost 20 down to lead inside the last minute.

 

[CoKane]

I would suspect Higgins and Kissinger but there is no way O'Neil will be here after what happened two years ago.

He was joking, but yeah, there is no way ONeil will ever be back in Hilton.

 

[Section110]

I watched the entire game last night. As many have pointed out the refs were not the reason ISU lost. These types of threads just make the fan base look ridiculous. Too bad no one will ever realize that. Yes, I'm well aware it happens everywhere too. It was nice to see many people in this thread made it clear that the refs weren't the reason ISU lost.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

If ISU deserved to lose how come they were up 1 with 12 seconds left? Riddle me that. What other metric is there? ISU played extremely well and extremely bad in stretches. I have no comprehension of how someone would say a team deserved to lose when they had more points than the other team. If ISU deserved to lose, they would've been losing before that bogus no call.

 

[ruxCYtable]

I disagree with this. Cherry's arm is extended from the time he turns the corner. he makes contact with MM, but he doesnt extend him arm with force at that point like you would see a running back do. I really think the push off is being overblown and it was just physics working against Monte.

I would normally agree you'd have to see some force behind it to get the call. But when it's fully extended like that he can't extended it any further. His body/momentum provided the force behind the stiff-arm. Without the stiff-arm creating space, it's a much tougher shot.

That said, I also agree there were many other reasons we lost and I didn't freak out when it happened because I know you're not going to get that call with 5 seconds left.

I'm not worried about this team. The Big XII is a meat grinder and as I said in another thread it will only make us tougher. I like the old Tim Floyd formula: He counted road wins as +1, home losses -1, home wins and road losses 0. If you stay in positive territory you'll be in good shape at the end of the year. We're +1 in the league right now and as tough as our schedule's been already I think it's a damn good place to be sitting right now.

 

[Section110]

If ISU deserved to lose how come they were up 1 with 12 seconds left? Riddle me that. What other metric is there? ISU played extremely well and extremely bad in stretches. I have no comprehension of how someone would say a team deserved to lose when they had more points than the other team. If ISU deserved to lose, they would've been losing before that bogus no call.

Read the bolded part of your post. That's why. Offensive rebounding is where I would start. They got manhandled in the paint. Missed free throws didn't help. Clean up some of those things and Chery wouldn't have had the opportunity to make a shot that puts them in the lead in the first place, and then no one would be whining about a push off.

Plus Niang had a poor game. He can't disappear like that and expect his team to win many B12 road games.

 

[ameslurker]

I didn't read this whoe thread, but chances are if he didn't push off, shot and missed Baylor would have gotten the offensive rebound and put-back. ISU couldn't rebound the basketball.

 

[AuH2O]

Isn't it hilarious Kansas got the late call at Baylor and isu doesn't. Same **** different year

Blue bloods get calls. Home teams get calls. Star players get calls. Refs tend to swallow their whistles in end of game situations. Push offs and hooks by offensive players are called only a fraction of the time. Yes it was an offensive foul but that is just not going to get called in that situation. Like it or not that's the way it's always been and will be.

As for the officiating overall vs Baylor, WV and SC, good things happen, including calls and no-calls, to the team that is constantly aggressive and physical.

 

[CyFan61]

Read the bolded part of your post. That's why. Offensive rebounding is where I would start. They got manhandled in the paint. Missed free throws didn't help. Clean up some of those things and Chery wouldn't have had the opportunity to make a shot that puts them in the lead in the first place, and then no one would be whining about a push off.

Plus Niang had a poor game. He can't disappear like that and expect his team to win many B12 road games.

I'm going to repost something I did earlier:

Why are so many people swarming to say that the REAL reason for the loss was sloppiness/laziness/free throws/whatever?

What if I told you... that a team could play less than perfect basketball, have room for improvement that they control, and still suffer a bad call at a pivotal moment in the game?

Why not both?

1. ISU played poorly by doing _______.
2. An official missed a call at the end.

Had either of those two things not happened, ISU would have won.

So why is rebounding/free throws/sloppy play/Niang/whatever the "real" reason for the loss?

 

[ribsnwhiskey]

I said it last night, I'll say it again today. It is on the refs. I don't care how bad we played or how far down we were. None of that matters because we came back and took the lead. They make that call if its Kansas and not ISU. Plain and simple. Its on the refs.

 

[Bigman38]

Obvious foul, can't ask Morris to do anymore than he did. But reffing has always been a trainwreck when it comes to the last few seconds of games. Relying on the refs to do their job at the end of the game is always going to dissapoint.

I think last night was a positive. Other Hoiberg teams get rolled in that game. They took Baylor's best shot multiple times and every time they buckled down played some D and worked their way back into the game. It's just too bad Baylor finally figured out how to make a shot at the end of the game.

 

[VeloClone]

Hogue got a deadball technical for tripping the player who got the Flagrant 1 for contact to the head as he threw Dustin to the ground under the basket. Baylor got the ball after the exchange of FTs because it was a deadball technical. Did anyone else notice that the first whistle was actually after Dustin kicked his foot out? Initially I was actually surprised that they called the flagrant because they didn't blow the whistle until after Dustin's little kick. I replayed it and the audio clearly has the first whistle during or after Dustin's foul. Obviously the refs couldn't see that on the replay because they don't have access to the audio. If they had audio they would have been able to establish that it was still technically a liveball situation because there had been no whistle. In that case even if a technical it is a return to the point of the foul play and ISU retains possession after the exchange of FTs.

 

[CycloneErik]

I can't imagine ever expecting that one to be called. Not because we're Iowa State, a road team, or not a traditional power. That's just a call that I would never expect to see made. It's such a standard play that no one would call it.

 

[Cycsk]

I'm going to repost something I did earlier:



Why not both?

1. ISU played poorly by doing _______.
2. An official missed a call at the end.

Had either of those two things not happened, ISU would have won.

So why is rebounding/free throws/sloppy play/Niang/whatever the "real" reason for the loss?

Agreed.

Now, for a little perspective that seems to be missing from the thread so far:

1. What have the "objective" media said about it? I watched SportsCenter for a while last night and never even heard anyone talk about the game. It would seem that we would have heard from a few of the talking heads about this.

2. Would a foul have been called if Morris had put his arm on Chery with less than 10 seconds left? If so, then why wasn't Chery called? The tightness of the calls against the defense begs for the same call to be made against the offense.

3. Was Baylor shooting hot as a few have posted? Not Chery. He was 4 for 16!