Are we being to harsh

Discussion in 'Mens Basketball' started by Drew0311, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. Go2Guy

    Go2Guy Well-Known Member

    Mar 18, 2006
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    Having LW back would certainly open up more offensive options, but I'm not sure if it plugs the D holes. If we could have and LW AND Cam (with a great work attitude), then we'd be talking a Dance invite.
     
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  2. Cycl1

    Cycl1 Well-Known Member

    Mar 14, 2012
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    He would probably be on the bench behind Nixon cause who knows why.
     
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  3. Cyinthenorth

    Cyinthenorth Well-Known Member
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    Mar 29, 2013
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    LW was as bad as Terrence on D
     
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  4. NickTheGreat

    NickTheGreat Well-Known Member

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    It's not like THT, LW, and Shayok were drafted into the Army and sent to Vietnam. It should have been no surprise that they wouldn't be here this year.
     
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  5. CycloneErik

    CycloneErik Well-Known Member

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    You left out Kentucky.
     
  6. TedKumsher

    TedKumsher Well-Known Member

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    'Cause ISU isn't injured?
     
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  7. Cat Stevens

    Cat Stevens Well-Known Member

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    Aka the 2016 Iowa State men’s basketball team
     
  8. TedKumsher

    TedKumsher Well-Known Member

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    It's a single elimination tournament. And this is only 2 samples. Would you fire Coach K because Duke went out the first round in 06-07, the second round in 07-08, and only sweet 16 in 08-09?
     
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  9. TedKumsher

    TedKumsher Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, cycloneworld was talking about only making it past the Sweet 16, not winning the tournament.

    :jimlad:
     
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  10. Cat Stevens

    Cat Stevens Well-Known Member

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    that’s different though
     
  11. Halincandenza

    Halincandenza Well-Known Member

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    I don't think plugging D holes would make this team perform any better.
     
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  12. TedKumsher

    TedKumsher Well-Known Member

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    Well, I mean, I guess, right?
     
  13. Cat Stevens

    Cat Stevens Well-Known Member

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    our injuries are just false excuses for a loser coach. Their injuries are the only reason said loser coach could ever have a chance to beat them.
     
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  14. LanningIsBakersDaddy

    LanningIsBakersDaddy Active Member

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    I would just like to point out that this is not true....

    BDJ: 11 career starts
    Monté Morris: 14 career starts
    Abdel Nader: 7 career starts

    I definitely see your point though... It is dang near impossible to get some talented players to play up to their potential together.
     
  15. MeowingCows

    MeowingCows Well-Known Member

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    Oh, it would help. It would tone down the effects of those massive scoring droughts we go on if the other team also can't score.
     
  16. Brandon

    Brandon Well-Known Member

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    Obviously Prohm is deserving of some criticism but holy **** for all the people who just want to see the negatives.
     
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  17. nfrine

    nfrine Well-Known Member

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    It must take more than a coach. Our last "bad" ex-coach is coaching the 10th rated team in the country this year.
     
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  18. Halincandenza

    Halincandenza Well-Known Member

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    Why would filling their D holes stop the other team from scoring? Seems like the pain or discomfort would prevent them from playing well on either end.
     
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  19. risiusj

    risiusj Active Member

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    I don't think that's accurate based off of stats or the eye test. Lindell was no Monte on defense, but he was close to average for a starter according to Defensive Box Plus/Minus and Defensive Win Shares. Lewis has not been.

    Now, stats like these are not easily comparable between a starting PG that got 33 minutes per game/6th man that got 26 MPG and a bench wing with inconsistent minutes.

    That's why I mention the eyeball test.
    Wigginton -
    Without going back to review tape I remember Lindell being a ball-watcher when playing off the ball. He got some decent steals from that but also "got lost" and gave up layups or caused team defensive rotation breakdowns and open shots because of it.
    When he was an on-ball defender in one-on-one situations he was good at disrupting ball handlers by staying in front and had pretty good hands too.
    But with pick-and-roll defense he had issues getting over or around screens due to bad footwork. He would often meet a screener at a perpendicular angle and get stuck.

    Pros and cons add up to be somewhat equal in the stat-Gods' eyes. In my opinion they tip toward the negative because I'd rather a point guard not gamble on defense unless they have supreme physical tools to do it. It puts more stress on your own defense to recover and puts you in scramble drill rotations.

    Lewis -
    We've all seen the struggles. It's become his narrative and a talking point for color commentators. He can physically be fine at defense. Maybe even pretty good. I remember watching his footwork as a freshman making closeouts and cutting off driving angles and being hopeful for him to grow in to a solid 3 and D guy. We see tiny glimpses of it when he's making high-effort, hustle plays on defense (and on the offensive glass).
    Something has not clicked for him in this situation over the past 3 years (almost).

    Links for reference. Look in the Advanced section for the two stats I mentioned above.
    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/lindell-wigginton-1.html#all_players_advanced
    https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/terrence-lewis-2.html#all_players_advanced
     
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  20. cycloneworld

    cycloneworld Facebook Knows All

    Mar 20, 2006
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    Fine. Scratch "NBA guys" with talent. We've had a ton of talent on our teams under Prohm and we don't have that much to show for it. I think, in general, Prohm has under performed considering the amount of talent on each team - and done it consistently.

    Even with Hoiberg's players, in 2015-16 we started the season ranked in the Top 5 and finished 10-8 in the conference. We did make a sweet 16 which is great. 2016-7 was the only year we maintained our position and actually improved towards the end of the year. 2017-8 was a disaster. 2018-19 I don't think anyone would argue that we vastly underachieved. And then we have this year. This trend doesn't give me a lot of confidence that Prohm can develop players and winning teams.
     
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