Are we being to harsh

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WastedTalent

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Oct 22, 2012
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You are right, it doesn't really matter. But we had 6 (!!!) NBA caliber players on the 2015-2016 roster - and made a Sweet 16. We had 4 NBA guys on the 2016-2017 roster and made the Round of 32. This is a results-oriented profession...not exactly lighting it up and producing results with that talent level.
I always thought this was a dumb argument. Nobody in college basketball gets fired because they had x number of NBA players, but didn't get to a certain point in the tournament. Please show me the chart that correlates the # of NBA players to tournament finish, and where the fireable line falls within the chart.

Freaking Bryce Dejean Jones played in the NBA, and I would argue him being on the team caused them to lose in the first round. How does that fit your argument?
 

madguy30

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2011
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Also, Glad you were all not around when Johnny Orr was coaching. Dude would have been fired. Look at Larry E's last two seasons. Ugh. The only coach to have real success almost every year at Iowa State is Fred.
What Johnny did compared to what happened prior to him was very different.

Larry's last team went to the NIT. I can't remember if he was involved in recruiting Stinson, Blaylock etc. but had he gotten them to buy in to his style, I bet he makes the tourney even their freshman year (03-04).

If this team were going to the NIT, it would be a really good coaching job.

ISU doesn't need to make the tourney every year. But being on pace to make it seem like a good accomplishment with players not from the previous staff shouldn't be acceptable.
 

Clonefan32

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Nov 19, 2008
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Thinking about what we lost after last year? I think I might have just expected to much this season. We lost THT, Wigginton, Shayok. That’s is a ton of scoring and talent.

I think I am changing my thought process and want to see what we are
Like next season and the season after. Changing the coach does not always make things better. Prohm has had some good teams and we have won a lot of games with him.
I would say THT was the only real "surprise" loss, and even that is debatable. With that said, I'm genuinely curious what you think this team is if we had THT? Would still having him make us a tournament team?
 

Stewo

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Oct 29, 2008
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Great job fitting all of the angry basketball fan cliches in.
If you mean identifying all of his shortcomings into a single post, I agree with you.

I'm curious though, if you don't blame Prohm for the state of the basketball program, who do you blame? I feel like you were one of those guys defending GMac to the very end. Blaming it on "bad luck" or whatever. Sometimes coaches don't fit at certain schools. It's not all that uncommon to see this issue. I know of at least two of these situations in the Big 12 alone.
 

Drew0311

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Nov 7, 2019
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What Johnny did compared to what happened prior to him was very different.

Larry's last team went to the NIT. I can't remember if he was involved in recruiting Stinson, Blaylock etc. but had he gotten them to buy in to his style, I bet he makes the tourney even their freshman year (03-04).

If this team were going to the NIT, it would be a really good coaching job.

ISU doesn't need to make the tourney every year. But being on pace to make it seem like a good accomplishment with players not from the previous staff shouldn't be acceptable.

Stinson and Blalock didn't play for Larry. They played for Wayne
 
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c.y.c.l.o.n.e.s

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Feb 21, 2007
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This team could have survived losing 4 borderline NBA players (plus Haliburton) if the players left on the roster lived up to expectations. We have two 4 star recruits and a high 3 star that can barely make it onto the floor on a bad team. If you look at most successful teams that are not blue bloods, you will find rosters built around guys like that. I don't know if it is Prohm's fault for not developing them or their fault for not buying in or the recruiting services fault for overvaluing them but that is the main reason that this season is a flop. Instead of building a team around three talented and highly recruited players, we are trying build a team out of freshmen, transfers and a hard nosed center that has spent the last two seasons rehabbing.
 
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BWRhasnoAC

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I know that I am super excited for Young's Senior year. The last several games he is performing at an all big 12 level type level. Over the last 6 games he is averaging
15.3 points, 4.5 rbs 1.5 blks 1 stl in only 24 minutes a game and shooting 64% from the field.
He had a fire lit under his ass and I love it.
 

mdk2isu

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Jan 30, 2013
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I would say THT was the only real "surprise" loss, and even that is debatable. With that said, I'm genuinely curious what you think this team is if we had THT? Would still having him make us a tournament team?
THT would have solved a lot of the issues this team has had. He can create his own shot. He can guard about any position on the floor. He can hit 3's. I honestly believe if he had stayed, this team is a bubble team.

With him we probably have these additional wins: @ Oregon State, FAMU, @ TCU, @ Auburn, @ Texas which would put us at 17-11 with 2 very winnable games remaining.
 

Clonefan32

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Nov 19, 2008
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THT would have solved a lot of the issues this team has had. He can create his own shot. He can guard about any position on the floor. He can hit 3's. I honestly believe if he had stayed, this team is a bubble team.

With him we probably have these additional wins: @ Oregon State, FAMU, @ TCU, @ Auburn, @ Texas which would put us at 17-11 with 2 very winnable games remaining.
That's probably pretty accurate. Not sure he was enough to get a win @ Auburn, but pretty well agree otherwise.
 

Cyinthenorth

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It was a battle of who's who in the Big 12 cellar last night. I think the end result doesn't matter as much as the positive strides we saw out of Grill and Jackson, even Griffin in limited time looked pretty good. These guys developing are critical to any success next year. I'd say between Solo, Bolton, Tre, Conditt, Grill and Griffin we have an OK core returning, especially once you throw Johnson into the mix. After a DNP-Coaches Decision, I think the writing is on the wall for Lewis. IF he does come back for his senior year, hopefully he can take a massive stride defensively and contribute, but I honestly just think it would be best for him to move on if he's in a position where he can either grad transfer or get a waiver to play immediately somewhere.

So, say Lewis is gone and everyone else returns. It is the 7 guys I mentioned above, and the 4 new guys. Plus a couple spots open up (Lewis and Tyrese). If we get one or two guys ready to contribute right away, we could be competitive at the very minimum next year.
 

mdk2isu

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That's probably pretty accurate. Not sure he was enough to get a win @ Auburn, but pretty well agree otherwise.
We lost that one by 4. I think he make enough of a difference to overcome that. Heck, he might have made enough of a difference that we beat Michigan in Atlantis. That probably doesnt change our record though since we still went 1-2.
 

MJN

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You are right, it doesn't really matter. But we had 6 (!!!) NBA caliber players on the 2015-2016 roster - and made a Sweet 16. We had 4 NBA guys on the 2016-2017 roster and made the Round of 32. This is a results-oriented profession...not exactly lighting it up and producing results with that talent level.
I don't think you realize how hard it is to win in the NCAA tournament. Kentucky had the best team maybe in the history of CBB a few years back and didnt win it all.
 

CoKane

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Oct 26, 2013
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Thinking about what we lost after last year? I think I might have just expected to much this season. We lost THT, Wigginton, Shayok. That’s is a ton of scoring and talent.

I think I am changing my thought process and want to see what we are
Like next season and the season after. Changing the coach does not always make things better. Prohm has had some good teams and we have won a lot of games with him.
We lost at home to a MEAC team and are setting records for how bad we're getting blown out by good teams. I doubt it's going to get much worse.
 
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BWRhasnoAC

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It was a battle of who's who in the Big 12 cellar last night. I think the end result doesn't matter as much as the positive strides we saw out of Grill and Jackson, even Griffin in limited time looked pretty good. These guys developing are critical to any success next year. I'd say between Solo, Bolton, Tre, Conditt, Grill and Griffin we have an OK core returning, especially once you throw Johnson into the mix. After a DNP-Coaches Decision, I think the writing is on the wall for Lewis. IF he does come back for his senior year, hopefully he can take a massive stride defensively and contribute, but I honestly just think it would be best for him to move on if he's in a position where he can either grad transfer or get a waiver to play immediately somewhere.

So, say Lewis is gone and everyone else returns. It is the 7 guys I mentioned above, and the 4 new guys. Plus a couple spots open up (Lewis and Tyrese). If we get one or two guys ready to contribute right away, we could be competitive at the very minimum next year.
I expect us to be better next year, if we aren't then it will be time for changes.
 

CoKane

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Oct 26, 2013
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I think if we could have flipped 3 games (that were extremely winnable):
aFm
@UT
@TCU

The morale would be a lot different.
I'd swap Texas for Iowa. That seemed to be the point where a lot of people really started to question things.
 

Clonefan32

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Nov 19, 2008
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We lost that one by 4. I think he make enough of a difference to overcome that. Heck, he might have made enough of a difference that we beat Michigan in Atlantis. That probably doesnt change our record though since we still went 1-2.
This is all purely hypothetical, of course, but Auburn was dominate pretty much that whole game. It was more of a teaser rally that made it closer late. But who knows, maybe he does make the difference there.