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Asking again: Has the rot started to set in?

Has the rot started to creep in?

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awd4cy said:
We are not getting invited to the Big 10 or SEC, so our window of relevancy is pretty meaningless. Our conference is a 1 bid league going forward unless the playoffs expand. If we can’t make the conference championship this year then I don’t see how we ever will. Campbell had the easiest path possible and we returned pretty much every starter from last year. He’s proven to us he can’t take the next step. If we are content with that, then I guess so be it. Winning 8 games in a half mid major conference isn’t that amazing even if our history was bad in a big boy conference.
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Iowa State and the Big 12 elevating their profiles going forward and being the #3 Conference is huge.

So you want Campbell fired. What is your plan after doing that? Because you will have burnt the Campbell foundation to the ground. And the roster will be decimated. What kind of coach will you attract after firing Matt Campbell. The most successful coach in Iowa State history who has a winning record that is unprecedented at Iowa State. And you fired him. Because he didn’t win it all. At a school which hasn’t won a conference championship since 1912. And that was a co-champion title.

What coach is going to want to come here knowing they are fired if they do not deliver a championship when the school has zero conference championships in over a century?
 
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Cyclonsin said:
Just because we played a full conference slate doesn't mean it was normal. You can't just ignore the many starters our opponents were often missing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the most impressive thing we did in 2020 was stay healthy during the regular season.
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Exactly. The only thing we can brag about that year is that we had elite health protocols.
 
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BillBrasky4Cy said:
Man people really have forgotten how bad the Big 12 schedule was when we had the North/South divisions. The 2 years we dodged OU and Texas our schedule was soft AF. Danny Mac wracked up a sh!t load of wins against bad teams and NEVER won a big game outside of Iowa.
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Nobody forgot. That happened 2 whole seasons, and hardly anyone is praising Danny Mac for it.
 
awd4cy said:
We are not getting invited to the Big 10 or SEC, so our window of relevancy is pretty meaningless. Our conference is a 1 bid league going forward unless the playoffs expand. If we can’t make the conference championship this year then I don’t see how we ever will. Campbell had the easiest path possible and we returned pretty much every starter from last year. He’s proven to us he can’t take the next step. If we are content with that, then I guess so be it. Winning 8 games in a half mid major conference isn’t that amazing even if our history was bad in a big boy conference.
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I think Campbell can take the next step, and I think he could have done so already. But I think it will require him to put away his stubbornness and find a Jon Heacock to run the offense, instead of throwing inexperienced coaches/grad assistants into the fire and hoping for success. And before those inclined to do so chime in with the blah blah about how ISU won't be able to/doesn't have resources to lure an experienced P4 coordinator, please first take a look at Heacock's resume in his 30+ years prior to ISU.

Campbell at ISU; COVID year in italics.
ISU Big 12 overall scoring defense ranking starting this year and working back (rank / # teams in conf):
2/16, 3/14, 1/10, 3/10, 2/10, 3/10, 1/10, 1/10, 7/10

ISU Big 12 overall scoring offense ranking starting this year and working back (rank / # teams in conf):
10/16, 10/14, 10/10, 4/10, 3/10, 5/10, 7/10, 8/10, 8/10

There are no teams in the Big12 that sniff football blueblood status, so offense might not have to be as good going forward as it needed to be in the past, but hovering around the bottom third in offense probably isn't going to be good enough to get to the conference championship game.
 
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awd4cy said:
Exactly. The only thing we can brag about that year is that we had elite health protocols.
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No, that's not what I'm saying either.

There's room for middle ground in all of these conversations, it isn't just "fire CMC" vs "never fire CMC," just like it isn't "2020 was no different than any other year" vs "2020 doesn't count at all."

I said the MOST impressive thing we did that year was stay healthy when so many other teams couldn't. But we DID finish the regular season #1 in conference, we DID come within a TD of winning the conference, and we DID win a Fiesta Bowl. All of those things are true, so we have more to be proud of in that season than just staying healthy.

Just like it's ok to acknowledge CMC's faults without wanting to get rid of him.
 
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awd4cy said:
Nobody forgot. That happened 2 whole seasons, and hardly anyone is praising Danny Mac for it.
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Two whole seasons? Our entire run in the original Big 12 was soft AF. The schedule got significantly harder when divisions where blown up and Baylor, Okie St, and Tech all got significantly better plus we added a salty TCU. The old Big 12 was hot garbage.
 
BillBrasky4Cy said:
The old Big 12 was hot garbage.
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Idk that I'd go this far. When the league was started into the first few years of the 2000s Nebraska, KSU, and Colorado were all top 10 or near top 10 teams. Then it flipped a bit with OU and Texas getting things figured out and winning a couple nattys.

The Big 12 north really fell off for a few years with those above mentioned teams becoming mediocre, and that's where Dan ultimately failed to take advantage.

Then things stabilized a bit with Mizzou and KU having some breakthrough teams and Nebraska becoming respectable again with Pelini. Plus you had Leach at TT and OSU hiring Gundy during that time.

There were absolutely some missed opportunities during that time, but saying the conference was bad seems a little misguided. And honestly one of the things that has been forgotten about in this whole realignment fiasco.
 
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3TrueFans said:
So we can discount this season as well due to our missing so many starters with injury. The rot discussion is hereby tabled until next year.
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Yup...totally valid to compare a season where teams had to cancel games because of COVID roster depletion to ISU's injury situation this year.
 
BillBrasky4Cy said:
Two whole seasons? Our entire run in the original Big 12 was soft AF. The schedule got significantly harder when divisions where blown up and Baylor, Okie St, and Tech all got significantly better plus we added a salty TCU. The old Big 12 was hot garbage.
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Yes, 2004 and 2005 were the only years the Big 12 north really sucked. That was it. Also, Tech was good pretty much the entire 2000s and OSU was tough from 2006 on. A&M was also usually not an easy out.
 
Cyched said:
Idk that I'd go this far. When the league was started into the first few years of the 2000s Nebraska, KSU, and Colorado were all top 10 or near top 10 teams. Then it flipped a bit with OU and Texas getting things figured out and winning a couple nattys.

The Big 12 north really fell off for a few years with those above mentioned teams becoming mediocre, and that's where Dan ultimately failed to take advantage.

Then things stabilized a bit with Mizzou and KU having some breakthrough teams and Nebraska becoming respectable again with Pelini. Plus you had Leach at TT and OSU hiring Gundy during that time.

There were absolutely some missed opportunities during that time, but saying the conference was bad seems a little misguided. And honestly one of the things that has been forgotten about in this whole realignment fiasco.
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I think a reasonable argument can be made that Dan deserved at least one or two more years. Reportedly he’d lost the donors and that’s why Jamie felt he needed to move on. I don’t know if that’s true or not.

Dan is probably a top 5 coach in our history, if for no other reason than he got to 9 wins…and 7 multiple times. He barely won more than 1/3 of his games though. That’s how bad ISU football is historically. He was/is viewed as one of our best (and again I think rightly), and his record would be considered abysmal by most other schools. His access to talent and facilities was horrible…not anywhere near what his competition had.

We talk about getting to 10 wins…and I think we should…but ISU has only won 9 three times. Matt has gotten there, Dan did, and A.W. Ristine got there in 1906. (We beat powerhouse programs such as Coe, Morningside, Grinnell, Des Moines, Cornell (the Iowa one), and Drake that year. Also beat Iowa and Nebraska.

Matt and Earle Bruce are the only ones who won 8 or more three times. Earle was also only 4-7 each year in the other half of his season.

Realistically, we should probably sign Matt to a lifetime contract and put up his statue now…
 
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