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LtRaczack

LtRaczack

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Dec 23, 2010
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Here is the real disconnect with the performance of the 2020 season. Let's all just go with the thought process that 2020 was a magical, amazing season. There is no asterisk and every achievement meaning the exact same it would every other season. The performance of the three adjacent seasons (2019,2021 and 2022) does not match the performance of 2020.

Yes, even the best programs have down years. Some like to bring up Bill Snyder's 6-6, 2001 KSU team. That season transpired after EIGHT seasons of 9 wins or more, with FOUR of those being 11-win seasons. I don't think anyone in Cyclone land would be blinking much with a 2023 record of 4-8 IF there were just three 8-win seasons in a row. Instead, we finished with 7 wins in 2019 and 2021 and now we have our down season in 2023.

I don't understand the thought process behind the accomplishments of the 2020 season. Either you think they were legitimate and there was a massive underperformance in 2019 and 2021 or the particular circumstances of the pandemic season benefitted Iowa State and the surrounding seasons were simply meeting expectations. Which is it or does it depend on the day and situation we are discussing?
 
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Gunnerclone

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Jul 16, 2010
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DSM
LtRaczack said:
Here is the real disconnect with the performance of the 2020 season. Let's all just go with the thought process that 2020 was a magical, amazing season. There is no asterisk and every achievement meaning the exact same it would every other season. The performance of the three adjacent seasons (2019,2021 and 2022) does not match the performance of 2020.

Yes, even the best programs have down years. Some like to bring up Bill Snyder's 6-6, 2001 KSU team. That season transpired after EIGHT seasons of 9 wins or more, with FOUR of those being 11-win seasons. I don't think anyone in Cyclone land would be blinking much with a 2023 record of 4-8 IF there were just three 8-win seasons in a row. Instead, we finished with 7 wins in 2019 and 2021 and now we have our down season in 2023.

I don't understand the thought process behind the accomplishments of the 2020 season. Either you think they were legitimate and there was a massive underperformance in 2019 and 2021 or the particular circumstances of the pandemic season benefitted Iowa State and the surrounding seasons were simply meeting expectations. Which is it or does it depend on the day and situation we are discussing?
Click to expand...

The performance fallacy aka the Continuous Improvement fallacy. Especially worthless when used in judging sports teams. Better for judging individual players but even then in football it’s less useful than say, basketball.
 
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CycloneErik

CycloneErik

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Jan 31, 2008
105,885
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Jamerica
rememberingdoria.wordpress.com
LtRaczack said:
Here is the real disconnect with the performance of the 2020 season. Let's all just go with the thought process that 2020 was a magical, amazing season. There is no asterisk and every achievement meaning the exact same it would every other season. The performance of the three adjacent seasons (2019,2021 and 2022) does not match the performance of 2020.

Yes, even the best programs have down years. Some like to bring up Bill Snyder's 6-6, 2001 KSU team. That season transpired after EIGHT seasons of 9 wins or more, with FOUR of those being 11-win seasons. I don't think anyone in Cyclone land would be blinking much with a 2023 record of 4-8 IF there were just three 8-win seasons in a row. Instead, we finished with 7 wins in 2019 and 2021 and now we have our down season in 2023.

I don't understand the thought process behind the accomplishments of the 2020 season. Either you think they were legitimate and there was a massive underperformance in 2019 and 2021 or the particular circumstances of the pandemic season benefitted Iowa State and the surrounding seasons were simply meeting expectations. Which is it or does it depend on the day and situation we are discussing?
Click to expand...

Also, nobody with Campbell's record has rebounded from a 3 or 4 win season and built a winner.
 
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LincolnSwinger

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Nov 10, 2008
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Carlisle Clone said:
I have wondered a few times this year if it would be easier to stomach the season if the whole team sucked instead of just the offense. If the D was bad and the team was losing by 15-20 each game would it be easier to take?

Because the D is elite and keeps this team in games right until the very end we wonder what could have been each week. Thats whats frustrating.
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For me, the answer is 100% no. We've been through seasons like that, and that makes me believe we're just structurally disadvantaged and will never be competitive. This is 1000x better than that hopelessness. And for that, we can thank Matt Campbell and his entire staff. They showed ISU can compete, even in this relatively frustrating year.
 
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LincolnSwinger

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CycloneErik said:
And then he retired. That's completely not proving a point here.
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Haha I'm a dope. I completely forgot about that while looking at his annual records. He did pretty good on his return, but your point is taken. In fact, that's the reason I was looking. I also can't think of a single example of a coaching staff that recovered from a one-win conference season. Since CMC will be our coach for the next few years at least, let's hope he's the one.
 
CycloneErik

CycloneErik

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LincolnSwinger said:
Haha I'm a dope. I completely forgot about that while looking at his annual records. He did pretty good on his return, but your point is taken. In fact, that's the reason I was looking. I also can't think of a single example of a coaching staff that recovered from a one-win conference season. Since CMC will be our coach for the next few years at least, let's hope he's the one.
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He'll have to be. He gets at least two years for sure.
 
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canker2323

canker2323

Well-Known Member
Oct 22, 2006
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What Cheer, IA
LincolnSwinger said:
Haha I'm a dope. I completely forgot about that while looking at his annual records. He did pretty good on his return, but your point is taken. In fact, that's the reason I was looking. I also can't think of a single example of a coaching staff that recovered from a one-win conference season. Since CMC will be our coach for the next few years at least, let's hope he's the one.
Click to expand...
McCarney went 0-fer in conference in 2003 and went 7-5 next 2 years.
 
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cycloneworld

cycloneworld

Facebook Knows All
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Mar 20, 2006
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Urbandale, IA
Acylum said:
I agree with your general premise, but this is two “bad” seasons in a row now. The first of which was with probably our most talented team ever. And both because of the same strategy/execution shortcomings. That’s what is frustrating/scary for the fan base.
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I agree - except that last year wasn't a bad season, it was a disappointing season. If we have a 9-3 season last year and won a bunch of those close games, I feel this season's frustration would still be there but it would be more forgivable. But we seemed to have doubled down on the schemes and strategies that lost us all of those close games last year into this year and that is unacceptable. Especially when you see what the defense has done.

Matt Campbell is 5-17 in toss up games. That cannot and is not a coincidence. His approach to schemes and game planning is not working and he must change it. If he doesn't, he will not succeed here. If he does, I think we can get back to 2019 and 2020 successes.

He deserves the chance to change and improve. And if he doesn't, then I'll be the first one to call for him to leave. But we aren't there yet IMO.
 
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besserheimerphat

besserheimerphat

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Apr 11, 2006
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joefrog said:
Listen, I'd hate me too if I wanted to live in the Pollyanna season of 2020, but this is 2022. The trends and facts are on my side.

I loved the CMC hire, but can see the reality of ISU football at this moment. 4 and 11 in our last 15 conference games. Same errors, same unpreparedness, same predictability.

If Manning isn't released next Monday, everybody is going to know I'm right.
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What if Manning is released on Tuesday?
 
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IASTATE07

IASTATE07

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quasistellar said:
It's not about that. It's about pointing out signs and trends that existed even during success.

People tend to ignore any negatives as long as the Ws keep coming.
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It is about that. Only point out negatives and completely dismiss anything positive that also happened. Some posters are trying to rewrite history based on their frustrations of this season.
 
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