***Official WV postgame thread***
- Thread starter Cyclonepride
- Start date
Whatever it is get rid of it. From coaches to players.
This is accurate, and...
my disclaimer...I believe in God...that said, nothing infuriates me more than when someone uses their faith in anything to overshadow the fact that they are in over their head. I'd have more respect for Prohm if he said "You know, frankly, this is new territory for me. I honestly don't know how to handle this situation. I'm going to pray about it and seek advice from others who have been through this. It's my job to get this on track...that's why they pay me." Instead, he comes off as a bible thumper who really believes God gives a **** whether the Iowa State Cyclones win basketball games.
Flame me all you want, this team is 100% a reflection on his inability to LEAD. Making people better and providing the guidance to have people WANT to follow you is a SKILL not easily learned.
Steve Prohm has lost his team.
The one thing - IMHO, anyway - this team sorely lacks is a leader on the floor. A Naz, or a Big Daddy. But none has emerged.....Babb and Shayok aren't the personality types to assume that role. Jacobson is trying, but it might be too late now, with the division(s) on the team. THT appears to have the strength of personality to do it, but he maybe doesn't think he's earned that right yet, as a true freshman. Wiggs doesn't want that role, from what I can see. He just wants to be the alpha dog on the floor - which, given his talent, he could be. He just isn't yet.
I also think CSP isn't the type to be a dictator, like a Knight, or even a Beard. He's used to ruling with an iron rod in an alpaca sheath. Perhaps he assumes if he treats these guys like men, they'll be mature enough to respond like men. And that isn't the case, at present.
I think I'm most disappointed in Shayok, after the incident earlier in the week. He's a fourth year senior and, from all appearances, a guy who tends to his business and leads by example.
The wheels have all come off....it remains to be seen who, if anyone, can put them back on. But I think it will require a team effort.
One last point----I'm in agreement with those who think Lard has worn out his welcome at ISU. It's a huge disappointment, given his potential, and the time and effort CSP has put in trying to mold him into what he could be. But it looks fairly obvious that it isn't going to happen, at least here.
I also think CSP isn't the type to be a dictator, like a Knight, or even a Beard. He's used to ruling with an iron rod in an alpaca sheath. Perhaps he assumes if he treats these guys like men, they'll be mature enough to respond like men. And that isn't the case, at present.
I think I'm most disappointed in Shayok, after the incident earlier in the week. He's a fourth year senior and, from all appearances, a guy who tends to his business and leads by example.
The wheels have all come off....it remains to be seen who, if anyone, can put them back on. But I think it will require a team effort.
One last point----I'm in agreement with those who think Lard has worn out his welcome at ISU. It's a huge disappointment, given his potential, and the time and effort CSP has put in trying to mold him into what he could be. But it looks fairly obvious that it isn't going to happen, at least here.
Act like we’ve been here before. Because we have. Act like we’ve been through a college basketball season before.
When the players are lost, the coach is down and searching how do we react? We react like they are our ENEMIES. Like they are trying to hurt us.
Keep in mind, I’m an alum, I’m a donor, I’ve been an ISU fan my entire life. My grandparents have had basketball season tickets for 40 years + so maybe it’s too much to ask to have a majority of people to act like adults. Everything doesn’t have to be a referendum in the HC.
I’ve never been a Prohm guy I think it was a huge mistake not to keep continuity from Fred and hire TJ but a lot of the same posters melting down didn’t want that because they are sheep and they bah bah bah about “we have to get someone with HC experience!” .he is what we have and because of all those things noted above I will have his back in as positive of a way that I can.
When we start consistently missing the NCAA tourney, consistently place at the bottom of the league and I see the recruiting classes and transfers coming in starting to slide then I’ll go crazy.
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We couldn't handle the 9 seed in our own conference. Team needs to find itself quick...
Are you ******* serious? You're the king of ad hominem on this site. Its personal attack after another for you. You of all people have no basis for attacking a good poster.
Prohm has lost the team, but I wouldn’t read too much into postgame comments after that performance. Few coaches articulate exactly what they mean in those moments, and saying your example isn’t any better leadership.
Yep, Baylor lost to the last place team on their own court last night. Baylor fans in meltdown mode. Chants of "Fire Drew" are in vogue.
Well hopefully we can snag him then lol....his record vs ISU and specifically Prohm is pretty darn good.
It is interesting to read everyone's interpretations of comments, body language and scheme. Case in point, I actually didn't mind Coach Prohm's post game comments on the radio show. He said that we aren't good. He is correct. From the cheap seats, the same seats most of you are sitting in, this whole downfall really points to the effort from the players. We show very limited effort on defense. That explains why we are getting killed on dribble drives and 3-pt shots. Eric Heft has had the same commentary through much of this tailspin. He is amazed at the rate these opposing teams are hitting 3s but he is quick to mention that their rate is directly related to our defensive effort. Offensively our ball movement has been garbage. The ball sticks with a few of these guys far too much, THT especially but at times LW. When their buckets fall, they can get some rhythm, but when they don't, they press really bad instead of trying to be a good teammate and do other things to get the win, work the ball around, get assists, rebounding, etc. I don't think it is a coincidence that these two guys have the most NBA hype. It seems like some of these games have turned into auditions. THT doesn't seem very interested in team basketball. His little tantrum last night with Mike Jacobsen was a good example. I am affraid that there is an attitude and culture that he is reverting back to, from his high school days.
I do question Coach Prohm's substitutions off of the bench. They seem really random and far too knee jerk. Jake Sullivan did raise some concern with Coach's scheme. I am fearful that there are deficiencies that were covered up early in his time here due to Monte Morris. I also wonder how much is to blame on scheme and how much is to blame on effort, on ball and off ball movement.
I do question Coach Prohm's substitutions off of the bench. They seem really random and far too knee jerk. Jake Sullivan did raise some concern with Coach's scheme. I am fearful that there are deficiencies that were covered up early in his time here due to Monte Morris. I also wonder how much is to blame on scheme and how much is to blame on effort, on ball and off ball movement.
You think we are at worst a 7 seed by losing outright? I think you’re giving these guys too much credit.
Losing this way sucks. A true team is always better than the sum of its parts.
The place where you really see teamwork most evident is on the defensive side of the floor. It has been indicative of the fact that this team is selfish that their defense has gotten as bad as it has.
This team was tighter and better six weeks ago. The ability to continue to play great team basketball was in them, we all saw it. The fact that it would be there for one game but not the next should have bothered us more.
A staff can massage egos or paper over personal differences for a week or two, but ultimately if players don't mesh they have to work it out themselves for the betterment of the whole team.
That can still happen, but it has persisted long enough that I sure wouldn't count on it.
The place where you really see teamwork most evident is on the defensive side of the floor. It has been indicative of the fact that this team is selfish that their defense has gotten as bad as it has.
This team was tighter and better six weeks ago. The ability to continue to play great team basketball was in them, we all saw it. The fact that it would be there for one game but not the next should have bothered us more.
A staff can massage egos or paper over personal differences for a week or two, but ultimately if players don't mesh they have to work it out themselves for the betterment of the whole team.
That can still happen, but it has persisted long enough that I sure wouldn't count on it.
I don't know if Prohm has lost this team, or if it can be "found" in time to salvage the season. Even with a complete collapse, this would be the first of his four seasons where his team didn't meet expectations and that's not cause for firing.
I think it's unfair to mock his postgame quotes, obviously borne out of frustration and trying (in vain thus far) to find answers, and his references to God, when if he were winning we'd all be celebrating what a grounded guy he was, trying to turn boys into well-rounded men.
I've seen people suggest he needs to be more like Eustachy and grab these guys by the collar, so to speak, and get them in line. What's Eustachy up to these days, anyway? I've seen people say he just needs to "lead," because people think leadership equates to being a forceful personality. I think that is really simplistic.
I'm not absolving Prohm here. But in my opinion, it's worth asking why guys like Niang and Naz and Monte were able to not only play for Prohm with success but transition from a previous, beloved coach to Prohm - and in Naz and Monte's case, opt to stick around for their final season of eligibility to play under him.
Do you think since then Prohm has changed somehow, in a way that makes him unequipped to handle this team? He's a man, he's 40, so I doubt it. I think this team is a weird mix of guys with different agendas - and I don't mean that in a bad way. You've got Shayok, with something to prove and one year to do it. You've got youth/inexperience. You've got potential NBA draftees trying to impress scouts. You've got Lard who's talented but troubled. And you've got injuries on top of all that. Trying to get everyone to play together was probably the singular biggest challenge, and in hindsight we probably should have put more stock in it when Prohm spent the entire offseason talking about it.
He held it together pretty well early in the season, it's fallen apart lately. Let's see if they can get it back.
I think it's unfair to mock his postgame quotes, obviously borne out of frustration and trying (in vain thus far) to find answers, and his references to God, when if he were winning we'd all be celebrating what a grounded guy he was, trying to turn boys into well-rounded men.
I've seen people suggest he needs to be more like Eustachy and grab these guys by the collar, so to speak, and get them in line. What's Eustachy up to these days, anyway? I've seen people say he just needs to "lead," because people think leadership equates to being a forceful personality. I think that is really simplistic.
I'm not absolving Prohm here. But in my opinion, it's worth asking why guys like Niang and Naz and Monte were able to not only play for Prohm with success but transition from a previous, beloved coach to Prohm - and in Naz and Monte's case, opt to stick around for their final season of eligibility to play under him.
Do you think since then Prohm has changed somehow, in a way that makes him unequipped to handle this team? He's a man, he's 40, so I doubt it. I think this team is a weird mix of guys with different agendas - and I don't mean that in a bad way. You've got Shayok, with something to prove and one year to do it. You've got youth/inexperience. You've got potential NBA draftees trying to impress scouts. You've got Lard who's talented but troubled. And you've got injuries on top of all that. Trying to get everyone to play together was probably the singular biggest challenge, and in hindsight we probably should have put more stock in it when Prohm spent the entire offseason talking about it.
He held it together pretty well early in the season, it's fallen apart lately. Let's see if they can get it back.
The 30 for 30 about how this team unites just before the NCAA Tournament and makes a run to the final four is gonna be lit.
Or not.. We'll see
Or not.. We'll see
I can't remember the quote exactly, but it reminds me of the CPR quote he had about if you have one jackass you're okay, but once you get two jackasses it becomes a jackass farm.
Just bad all around and I don't see any way it gets fixed. It's just a flawed team in that our best players appear focused on this being an NBA tryout, and our team guys are limited players. I just can't see this thing getting turned around.
Which leaves you to wonder where that leaves us. I struggle to say Prohm has accomplished a lot in his four years. The first year he inherited a top 10 team and they were so-so all year. Sweet 16 was great and all, but benefited from a weak path. Got housed by UVA. The next year was obviously his best work. That team had some rough patches but by the end of the year he had them playing well. Last year, well that was one of the worst in school history. No real way to argue that.
So that leaves you with this year. A team that everyone gushed about their potential. Local media, national media, everyone thought we were the most talented team in the Big 12. But it's obvious that the "potential" was never reached. It spiraled out of control and the guy in charge does not appear to have any suggestions on how to remedy it other than to just hope it gets better. Failure to reach potential comes down on the guy that makes the big bucks to coach this team.
Last night was a coaching clinic. Huggy took a group of nobodies and they ran us off the court. Their guys know their roles, stick to what they're good at, and he wont accept less. Their effort on the boards was something to watch, compared to our complete lack of effort. I just cant put my finger on what Prohm does well. Our offensive strategy-- well I haven't figured it out yet. Luckily we have some talented guys that can make tough shots. But there is no rhythm, no scheme. And defensively, oh boy. Awful. Rebounding-- atrocious. Shooting-- meh. Effort--meh. What does he do exactly?
Which leaves you to wonder where that leaves us. I struggle to say Prohm has accomplished a lot in his four years. The first year he inherited a top 10 team and they were so-so all year. Sweet 16 was great and all, but benefited from a weak path. Got housed by UVA. The next year was obviously his best work. That team had some rough patches but by the end of the year he had them playing well. Last year, well that was one of the worst in school history. No real way to argue that.
So that leaves you with this year. A team that everyone gushed about their potential. Local media, national media, everyone thought we were the most talented team in the Big 12. But it's obvious that the "potential" was never reached. It spiraled out of control and the guy in charge does not appear to have any suggestions on how to remedy it other than to just hope it gets better. Failure to reach potential comes down on the guy that makes the big bucks to coach this team.
Last night was a coaching clinic. Huggy took a group of nobodies and they ran us off the court. Their guys know their roles, stick to what they're good at, and he wont accept less. Their effort on the boards was something to watch, compared to our complete lack of effort. I just cant put my finger on what Prohm does well. Our offensive strategy-- well I haven't figured it out yet. Luckily we have some talented guys that can make tough shots. But there is no rhythm, no scheme. And defensively, oh boy. Awful. Rebounding-- atrocious. Shooting-- meh. Effort--meh. What does he do exactly?
