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*** COACHING SEARCH THREAD: Monday, June 8 ***

bawbie said:
I think maybe you are. If he's hired, it's not based on a resume, it's based on almost 10 years of observing him coaching and being able to determine his strengths based on 1st hand knowledge.

But please continue with your preemptive meltdown...
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So let me get this straight...

You think TJ Otz is a better coaching candidate, despite never having coached a single college game in his life, than Brad Underwood who, in his 7 seasons as an assistant with Kansas State, had 7 straight 20+ win seasons then winded up head coach at another school and won almost 90% of his games in two seasons which is almost unheard of for any school in D1?

And you have the audacity to call me high?
 
BodeClone said:
The only one having a meltdown is him. I disagreed with his opinion too, then he angrily made up something I said. I'm not the type of guy that likes to get moderators involved with posters, but he's really pushing it now.
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Should probably go straight to Chris. He understands your incredible value to the success of this website.
 
cyrocksmypants said:
At SFA. It's all relative. I'm not saying any would suck, I'm not saying any will be great. Just saying the list feels ho-hum.
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Seriously? Do you even realize how ridiculous that is? I don't care what school it is. 90% is insane. Seriously, find me one coach right now who's listed in the top wins in NCAA history that put up those kind of numbers with lesser schools. I'll give you a hint, you can almost find none of them except Jerry Tarkanian.


Let's make it easy for you:
* Jim Calhoun - .644 at Northeastern University
* Bob Knight - .671 at Army
* Bill Self - .614 at Oral Roberts and Tulsa
* Rick Pitino - .641 at Boston University
* John Wooden - .746 at Indiana State
* Lou Henson - .709 at New Mexico State
 
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marothisu said:
So let me get this straight...

You think TJ Otz is a better coaching candidate, despite never having coached a single college game in his life, than Brad Underwood who, in his 7 seasons as an assistant with Kansas State, had 7 straight 20+ win seasons then winded up head coach at another school and won almost 90% of his games in two seasons which is almost unheard of for any school in D1?

And you have the audacity to call me high?
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I didn't say he was a better candidate. I said, if he's hired it's basedon 1st hand experience not based on resume. You and others seem to be under the impression that ones resume is the only criteria being used to make this hire. I can assure you that's not the case.

For or the record, I've been #TeamBryce all along.
 
marothisu said:
Seriously? Do you even realize how ridiculous that is? I don't care what school it is. 90% is insane. Seriously, find me one coach right now who's listed in the top wins in NCAA history that put up those kind of numbers with lesser schools. I'll give you a hint, you can almost find none of them except Jerry Tarkanian.
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Good for him. Still not wowed. I supposed it's probably good for everyone that I don't have as much pull in the decision as so many posters on here seem to think they do.
 
BodeClone said:
The only one having a meltdown is him. I disagreed with his opinion too, then he angrily made up something I said. I'm not the type of guy that likes to get moderators involved with posters, but he's really pushing it now.
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Please do. I'm sure they need a chuckle tonite.
 
Dingus said:
Responding to a post in the Sunday thread, but I would think the Brewster guy lobbying for TJ is hoping for a AC position. Which could work well.

Also, I know nothing of Gottfried of NC St, except he's got a great recruiter on staff. Id like the AC to come over more than the HC. Ps no sources
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Jason Smith has passed up better gigs than an assistant to TJ at ISU. KU and Co own Brewster.
 
cyrocksmypants said:
Good for him. Still not wowed. I supposed it's probably good for everyone that I don't have as much pull in the decision as so many posters on here seem to think they do.
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Let's look at some of the winningest coaches in history who coached power teams and how they fared before they got to coach at those power schools:

* Jim Calhoun - .644 at Northeastern University
* Bob Knight - .671 at Army
* Bill Self - .614 at Oral Roberts and Tulsa
* Rick Pitino - .641 at Boston University
* John Wooden - .746 at Indiana State
* Lou Henson - .709 at New Mexico State
* Eddie Sutton - .621 at Creighton
* Bob Huggins - .678 at Akron
* Bo Ryan - .526 at UW-Milwaukee
* Mike Montgomery - .667 at Montana
* Gary Williams - .632 at American University
* John Beilein - .634 at Le Moyne (D2) and .589 at Canisius
* Lon Kruger - .468 at UT-Pan American
* Tubby Smith - .648 at Tulsa

The average for these guys, some of the greatest coaches in the history of the game with many many championships, is in the .600s with much lesser teams before they went to the higher up schools. For someone to put up almost .900? It's insane that none of the coaches on the above list could even sniff. I really don't think you understand how hard it is to put up those types of numbers, even at a lesser school like SFA. It almost never happens, even some of the greatest coaches of all time couldn't put up those types of numbers when they were coaching schools like American University. Lon Kruger couldn't even come out with a winning record at UT Pan American.
 
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bawbie said:
I didn't say he was a better candidate. I said, if he's hired it's basedon 1st hand experience not based on resume. You and others seem to be under the impression that ones resume is the only criteria being used to make this hire. I can assure you that's not the case.

For or the record, I've been #TeamBryce all along.
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There's many things to hire someone on - but being likeable is not the #1 criteria. Nobody ever hired someone who was mediocre just because they were a nice person to hang around with. It helps, but it's not the major basis.
 
marothisu said:
Let's look at some of the winningest coaches in history who coached power teams and how they fared before they got to coach at those power schools:

* Jim Calhoun - .644 at Northeastern University
* Bob Knight - .671 at Army
* Bill Self - .614 at Oral Roberts and Tulsa
* Rick Pitino - .641 at Boston University
* John Wooden - .746 at Indiana State
* Lou Henson - .709 at New Mexico State
* Eddie Sutton - .621 at Creighton
* Bob Huggins - .678 at Akron
* Bo Ryan - .526 at UW-Milwaukee
* Mike Montgomery - .667 at Montana
* Gary Williams - .632 at American University
* John Beilein - .634 at Le Moyne (D2) and .589 at Canisius
* Lon Kruger - .468 at UT-Pan American
* Tubby Smith - .648 at Tulsa

The average for these guys, some of the greatest coaches in the history of the game with many many championships, is in the .600s with much lesser teams before they went to the higher up schools. For someone to put up almost .900? It's insane that none of the coaches on the above list could even sniff. I really don't think you understand how hard it is to put up those types of numbers, even at a lesser school like SFA. It almost never happens, even some of the greatest coaches of all time couldn't put up those types of numbers when they were coaching schools like American University. Lon Kruger couldn't even come out with a winning record at UT Pan American.
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Alright. You've convinced me. I'll call JP tomorrow morning to let him know the decision has been made.
 
marothisu said:
There's many things to hire someone on - but being likeable is not the #1 criteria. Nobody ever hired someone who was mediocre just because they were a nice person to hang around with. It helps, but it's not the major basis.
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I didn't say anything about likability. Apparently you can only argue against strawmen.
 
bawbie said:
I didn't say anything about likability. Apparently you can only argue against strawmen.
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Not at all, maybe that's not what you meant but a lot of people are going on the fact that he's likeable and knows ISU and therefore should be hired even though they know 0 about his actual coaching abilities (they know he's a good recruiter). None of those two things are reasons to hire someone outright though.

Anybody who's ever hired someone to do a legitimate job would agree with this. Even if that's not what you meant, those two things I just stated are absolutely true of any serious job and hiring.
 
acgclone said:
You can't hand the keys to a top 10 team and have your coach make less than half of the next lowest paid coach in the B12.

That just says you're less serious about winning than you are saving pennies. Even if it's TJ that would pretty much mean we're a laughing stock.
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They have probably never read the story of Johnny Lingo and his 8-cow wife. http://www.ultimatehusband.com/8cow_wife.htm
 
marothisu said:
Not at all, maybe that's not what you meant but a lot of people are going on the fact that he's likeable and knows ISU. None of those two things are reasons to hire someone outright.

Anybody who's ever hired someone to do a legitimate job would agree with this.
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Well, you responded to me and that is clearly not what I was saying. I haven't reslly seen anyone make that argument. I think you are just very confused.
 
swarthmoreCY said:
Well, if the shoe fits.

It is just a different buisness model. Cheap HC, expensive staff. TJ doesn't have a resume in comparison to other Big 12 coaches, so why would his pay be anything but obscenely low? Grab an assistant with HC experience for near equal pay, plus great recruiters.
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Read the story of Johnny Lingo and his 8-cow wife. http://www.ultimatehusband.com/8cow_wife.htm
 
bawbie said:
Well, you responded to me and that is clearly not what I was saying. I haven't reslly seen anyone make that argument. I think you are just very confused.
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Well, there's thousands of posts about this coaching search in the last week or so and yes, I've seen it. In the end, regardless, almost nobody on here has any real information on why they should hire TJ except for "Well, he knows a few players already." and "Well, he's a good recruiter". And yes, I've seen the "he's a likeable guy" comment elsewhere.

In the end, it completely worries me that so many people would blindly favor someone who hasn't really been able to display his coaching skills directly.
 
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