ISU's release regarding Darien Williams' release

[Dingus]

You guys are bat **** insane. If Fred wasn't cool with it, he'd have blocked the transfer or not released him.

What if I told you Williams was a good player but Fred valued his personal relationship with a friend whose wedding he was in and recruited many of the players Fred has built his success on?


And that he probably just said, "You recruited him to ISU, I wouldn't have him without you. If he wants to follow you that's ok."


No, obviously Matt is shady and evil all of a sudden and he and Hoiberg are now mortal enemies. You guys are pathetic.

This is actually what I think probably happened. But unless it's better for ISU BB to have DW at SJU than at ISU, I'm not crazy about it. Whether it helps Matt or not.

Fwiw I don't see Fred forcing DW to stay whether Fred's happy about it or not. I think Fred's a really good dude.

 

[cyfanatic]

I have no idea, but I do trust Fred

Same here.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Freely and happily admit that I am not an insider at all...so if MA takes DW with them then Fred is OK with it right? But if MA never left ISU then DW is at ISU and Fred is OK with that too? Does Fred not have a vested interest in which players are recruited? Or was Fred going to nudge DW out anyway? Relationships are very important...but in NCAA coaches are paid to win! Why wouldn't Fred care if DW comes or goes?

Fred cares enough about his personal relationship with Matt that he didn't want to hold a player who wanted to leave against his will just to spite him?


Why did Fred advise Royce to go pro?

 

[NorthCyd]

Look......this is meant to be a very respectful response. I don't think many fans really understand recruiting or questions like this wouldn't be hashed over again and again. It depends on the recruit, but MANY recruits (especially jucos and transfers like Williams) are looking for a place to play and the lead recruiter builds the relationship and makes them feel they'll take care of every need they'll have throughout their college life. Do you really think Royce White cared a hoot about who Fred Hoiberg was 'before' he came here and experienced it? Heck no. He wanted a second chance, not to mention not wanting to fly to Kentucky for a visit, and MattA assures him that its the place to be. I bet you could ask alot of recruits that come to ISU that this would be the case, regardless what they say in a recruiting story or how they chose the school. Do you really think Chris Allen, Will Clyburn, and others, totally chose ISU because of Hoiberg? No. MattA does the leg work and convinces them its the place to be. Now, a guy like Clayton Custer or Georges Niang may have specifically came to Iowa State because of how he felt about Hoiberg and his style of play, etc.. Just saying....there are plenty of players who originally didn't come to ISU because they were enamored by Hoiberg, his style of play, or life in Ames. Its just what the lead recruiter has convinced him is best for him. Until some of them get here and become part of the family, they don't live it...the university, the program, Hoiberg's the man...... like us.

On a side note: Burton coming had nothing to do with Williams. Williams is 100% here if Matt doesn't leave for another job.

That's all well and good, but the reality is once the player is here the assistant is no longer that big a part of the equation. The head coach runs the show. It just seems if there is a disconnect from the head coach to the recruits as there appears to be you run a risk of problems once the recruit actually arrives and the head coach is calling the shots. Apparently that's just the way it is done. I'm not surprised its this way I guess when I heard TJ refer to the role of recruiter as part independent contractor.

I will say I specifically remember Williams saying how much he liked ISU and the style of play, and how he went to a JUCO close to ISU in hopes of getting an offer. So at least he was paying lip service to wanting to be at ISU and playing in Fred's system. Guess it was nothing more than that if he just wants to follow an assistant coach around.

 

[cyfanatic]

Fred cares enough about his personal relationship with Matt that he didn't want to hold a player who wanted to leave against his will just to spite him?


Why did Fred advise Royce to go pro?

Fred told Royce that for the same reason LE told Fizer...the time was right! Coaches can't be thought of as holding their players back...unless they are doing so for the best interest's of the player. I love Fred...but Fred is paid to and expected to build the best program possible at ISU. Couldn't be happier that Fred is our coach! I just enjoy the curiosities of this situation. I try not to follow recruiting because so many names get floated it is hard to keep up with all of them...especially when most of those names won't attend ISU.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

You guys are bat **** insane. If Fred wasn't cool with it, he'd have blocked the transfer or not released him.

What if I told you Williams was a good player but Fred valued his personal relationship...

Define cool with it? Cool with Williams not wanting to be here? No, but we are not forcing him to stay. Cool with him going to StJ? As long as Abdelmassih didn't encourage it, who gives a ****. I doubt that though and StJ should have been blocked.

I'd tell you losing Abdelmassih was a bigger hit than we all realized and no wonder we struggle in winning recruiting battles. CBB is ruthless and we lost that with MA.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Define cool with it? Cool with Williams not wanting to be here? No, but we are not forcing him to stay. Cool with him going to StJ? As long as Abdelmassih didn't encourage it, who gives a ****. I doubt that though and StJ should have been blocked.

I'd tell you losing Abdelmassih was a bigger hit than we all realized and no wonder we struggle in winning recruiting battles. CBB is ruthless and we lost that with MA.

Losing MA was a loss. Picking up TJ was a gain. The program remains. The fan base remains. Both coaches are responsible for some great, great Cyclone players.

I do NOT care that Williams is not coming here. He never suited up, never played a minute. But the reason I don't care is because the staff - and maybe TJ specifically - will bring someone in to replace him. Maybe better maybe not but we WILL field a full team next year.

MA went home and he's taking with him his recruiting relationships he's developed over his entire professional career. That's what made him valuable to CFH originally and that's what makes him valuable to SJU. That's also what made TJ valuable to UW and now again for us.

 

[bawbie]

I'd tell you losing Abdelmassih was a bigger hit than we all realized and no wonder we struggle in winning recruiting battles. CBB is ruthless and we lost that with MA.

I think these type of absolute conclusions need to wait until the free agency season is over and we know what we end up with for a 2015 class.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

I think these type of absolute conclusions need to wait until the free agency season is over and we know what we end up with for a 2015 class.

The comment was in response to Rhoad's hypothetical question. I would hope MA's well-being does not come before assembling the best roster for next year.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

The comment was in response to Rhoad's hypothetical question. I would hope MA's well-being does not come before assembling the best roster for next year.

Why did he tell Royce to go pro then?

 

[Dingus]

Why did he tell Royce to go pro then?

Because Royce was a 2 yr member of ISU bb, I assume it was believed it was in Royce's best interest, in ISU's to get players drafted, and in ISU's if it was wondered whether everything going swimmingly had a chance to end.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Because Royce was a 2 yr member of ISU bb, I assume it was believed it was in Royce's best interest, in ISU's to get players drafted, and in ISU's if it was wondered whether everything going swimmingly had a chance to end.

Or because Fred just thought it was best for Royce

 

[Dingus]

Or because Fred just thought it was best for Royce

Which is what I said, in addition to other possibilities.

 

[isu81]

Or because Fred just thought it was best for Royce

Bingo- you ALWAYS give players the correct advice for the PLAYER. Not doing so will make you suspect in the eyes of future recruits. This guy wanted to follow Matt, why wouldn't we let him? He's little threat to us there and we didn't want him here if he didn't want to be.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Which is what I said, in addition to other possibilities.

My point is what's best for the player is vastly more important than the program. These are real people.

And if you want to make it about the program, there's no way it was in Iowa State's best interest for Royce to leave. There's no way positive buzz about a drafted player outweighs having a stud like him come back.


Not to mention that recruiting is a relationship game. Fred succeeds because he understands this.

 

[swarthmoreCY]

Why did he tell Royce to go pro then?

Telling players it is in their best interest to leave when asked is a lot different than this.

 

[Dingus]

My point is what's best for the player is vastly more important than the program. These are real people.

And if you want to make it about the program, there's no way it was in Iowa State's best interest for Royce to leave. The no way positive buzz about a drifted player outweighs having a stud like him come back.


Not to mention that recruiting is a relationship game. Fred succeeds because he understands this.

Listen, I agree with this; I never advocated not allowing DW out of his LOI or anything like that. Allowing the appearance that assistants can be hired away and encouraged to take recruits with them is dangerous, however.

Lots of people keep saying recruiting is cut throat, Matt now works for SJU, etc. Which is all true. But then it is OK for Fred to do the same. Matt no longer works for ISU. I don't see why anyone at ISU would allow or encourage him to recruit away a player unless we didn't want that player here anymore.

 

[Wesley]

Just saw on Twitter that Williams is in fact signing with St. Johns....

IMO, Matt stinko. Just my opinion. Self server.

 

[VeloClone]

Would have made sense to put a restriction on his LOI release to not go to St. John's unless Fred thinks it's better this way having Matt owe us one. Still sucks now.

I'm confused as to how him going to any other school in the NCAA over St. Johns would have made the 2015-16 ISU BB team any better.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Listen, I agree with this; I never advocated not allowing DW out of his LOI or anything like that. Allowing the appearance that assistants can be hired away and encouraged to take recruits with them is dangerous, however.

Lots of people keep saying recruiting is cut throat, Matt now works for SJU, etc. Which is all true. But then it is OK for Fred to do the same. Matt no longer works for ISU. I don't see why anyone at ISU would allow or encourage him to recruit away a player unless we didn't want that player here anymore.

Because the player didn't want to be here as much as SJU.


And that's a slippery slope fallacy. Fred has had many coaches leave and never had a recruit leave with them. This is a special circumstance. Fred won't be nearly as close to any future assistants who leave. This is just one recruit. It doesn't mean it's going to happen a ton going forward, and Fred still has power in every situation going forward. Precedent is irrelevant.